We need a coup

Civil disobedience will put neighbours against neighbours, destroy families who are already struggling. To say nothing of the intolerable position it would put our armed forces and police in.

What we really don’t need now (! Understatement of the year) is civil disobedience.

Janpt, Have you ever seen so called 'poor people' interviewed on TV? They usually have more than two children, quite often a large dog, a very large tv etc........ I haven't printed out the rest of your judgemental post it can stand on its own.

You disregard the genuine post from growstuff , telling her own experience in going from what no doubt you would see as hard working families etc, to losing the lot, for no fault of her own and being in a position where claiming benefits was the only option.

The tv shows you refer to as your research into the lives of 'the poor' are exploitative programmes, deliberately made to show the minority of claimants who fit into the Shameless category. Have you ever met any 'poor people' as you call them.

I see from the news this morning that the shameless vote in parliament has led to a huge increase in the number of small local businesses offering packed lunches to any child in their area who needs them. Our local towns facebook group are full of such messages. Its an indictment of this government and gives me hope for humanity.

Janpt, this makes me so angry. The fact you put "poor people" in inverted commas shows that you just think they are scroungers. What do you suggest? Exposing their least favourite child on a hillside so that they don't have to feed them? Eating the dog maybe? And imagine the audacity of having a TV! To the poorhouse with them!

I'd suggest getting out into the real world to understand what problems people are facing before making such ridiculous comments.

What Monica says ??

Maizie You are unnecessary alarmist. Look back over the history of Parliament and it has survived far worse than we are facing now. Today things are at a pretty low level, but how can making it worse be any good? Who would lead this coup?

Just look across the pond, could anything be worse than Donald Trump and what he has done to democracy in the USA, but their democracy will survive and revive. So will ours.

growstuff

*There are enough benefits available for those who need them and use them for what they are intended i.e. not Cigarettes and drink. I cannot understand why people continue to have children they cannot afford to feed.*

I am amazed that anybody can still come up with this kind of nonsense!

Let me help you with your understanding!

I had two children when I was 37 and 42. I left it quite late in life because my husband and I wanted to make sure that we were "secure" financially - model citizens who would never have to claim benefits.

Little did I know that my husband would lose his job, our marriage would fall apart and I eventually buckled from the stress and lost my job too! I also lost my house.

My story is by no means unique. The majority of single parents claiming any kind of benefits are in their 30s or 40s (according to the ONS) and have previously been in a long-term relationship or married. They don't choose not to be able to feed their children. I think you should look at how little they receive in benefits. I'm pretty good at household budgeting, but there was no way I could ever have afforded to smoke, drink alcohol or even have a modern phone. We didn't have a TV after the old one broke and, for a few months, we didn't have any electricity in most of the house because I couldn't afford an electrician.

How dare you you stereotype people and judge them the way that you do! I suppose I should feel sorry that you are so ignorant about other people, but I'm not!

Have you ever seen so called 'poor people' interviewed on T.V.? They usually have more than two children, quite often a large dog, a very large t.v. e.t.c. It never seems to occur to them to limit the size of their families as they know that tax payers who do just that will continue to provide for them. They even joke about getting bigger council houses to accommodate them all.

There are enough benefits available for those who need them and use them for what they are intended i.e. not Cigarettes and drink. I cannot understand why people continue to have children they cannot afford to feed.

I am amazed that anybody can still come up with this kind of nonsense!

Let me help you with your understanding!

I had two children when I was 37 and 42. I left it quite late in life because my husband and I wanted to make sure that we were "secure" financially - model citizens who would never have to claim benefits.

Little did I know that my husband would lose his job, our marriage would fall apart and I eventually buckled from the stress and lost my job too! I also lost my house.

My story is by no means unique. The majority of single parents claiming any kind of benefits are in their 30s or 40s (according to the ONS) and have previously been in a long-term relationship or married. They don't choose not to be able to feed their children. I think you should look at how little they receive in benefits. I'm pretty good at household budgeting, but there was no way I could ever have afforded to smoke, drink alcohol or even have a modern phone. We didn't have a TV after the old one broke and, for a few months, we didn't have any electricity in most of the house because I couldn't afford an electrician.

How dare you you stereotype people and judge them the way that you do! I suppose I should feel sorry that you are so ignorant about other people, but I'm not!

but I will fight to the death to keep our parliamentary democracy,

But our Parliamentary democracy ids being destroyed, MOnica, can you not see that?

Parliament should be sovereign. I hate to assume that you don't know what that means, but it means that collectively, the Commons and the Lords, all of them, regardless of party, are the people who legislate, who make the law, not the government. They are the people who scrutinise the Executive (i.e the government) and have the power to amend or throw out legislation proposed by the Executive. They are losing that power. They actually, because of the huge tory majority voted to lose that power, which is absolutely insane. The only way that the Executive can be stopped is by their bills being defeated; which they won't be because party comes before country..

The government also proposes to break international law, to disregard the Rule of Law which is the fundamental element in a free and fair democracy, and, to prevent any judicial scrutiny of any of their actions. Without the power to hold them to account in any way at all they then have unlimited powers. They become a dictatorship. They become the dictatorship which the Civil War was fought to prevent. They are carrying out a coup against the British people. Voting for MPs who rubber stamp the government is not democracy. It's a sham...

I don't approve of coups because time and time again history tells us that they are violent and disruptive events in which significant numbers of the population suffer.

OTOH, I could see civil disobedience being a powerful weapon, as in the anti Poll tax movement.

*Maizie8 Complacency is not the best of moves in such a situation. That's how dictatorships take control.

and what is a coup if not dictatorships taking control

You may hate this current governmnet, so do I, but I will fight to the death to keep our parliamentary democracy, even if it means defending this government - and I would have done nothing less had a Labour government won the election and proved to be just as abysmal and as autocratic as this one. (which it undoubtedly would have been)

I quite agree about Mrs Thatcher and, I suspect Gordon Brown, despite his many failings, would have been up to the task as well.

Not to mention all of those people who are on zero hours contracts getting zero hours work.

Janpt "The fact is that there is no need for a child in this country to go hungry. There are enough benefits available for those who need them and use them for what they are intended i.e. not Cigarettes and drink. I cannot understand why people continue to have children they cannot afford to feed."

In the current crisis this is an appalling thing to say. Thousands of people are either going to lose their jobs or be furloughed on reduced wages. Many of them are on the minimum wage which is currently £8.72 an hour. There have been delays in delivering benefits, especially since the change to universal credit and these delays will be extended owing to the increasing numbers applying.

Pink cakes, I can't believe I agree with a Tory, but I do.

I've always voted Tory, but Boris Johnson has bumbled his way through all this - I admired him at the beginning but can't now - he's swapped and changed his mind about things.

Margaret Thatcher would have dealt with things so much better

Could you be any ruder Petra?

biba70
our parliamentary democracy Its not your Parliament.
When did you last live in the uk.

Iam64

I read the OP as tongue in cheek desperation. Apologies for so misreading Gaga's post.

MaizieD and varian, many thanks for bringing a note of reality to this discussion. Your'e right, there has been something of a silent coup, in plain sight. The majority voted against this government in 2019 and no one voted Demonic in as PM, yet there he is. Whoever said upthread that Alistair Campbell wasn't bullying Blair's strings is spot on.

Janpt, I assume by referring to Angela Raynor's "disgusting behaviour", you're referring to her muttering "scum" at a tory who was setting out all the reasons this country shouldn't feed its poorest, hungriest and most deprived children during the school holidays. this, despite the fact the qualify for free school meals.

Angela Raynor apologised. That's more than any of the government has done, even when forced by Marcus Rashford, a footballer - into a Uturn on its earlier refusal to provide food for children who would usually get a free school meal.
Angela Raynor wrote a moving article in which she said she was that child, the one whose only meal was the school dinner a food was a rare commodity in her home. She confirmed research that shows hungry children struggle to learn "I was that child" she said.
Marcus Rashford's mum had several jobs so she could feed and care for her children. She reluctantly agreed with MUFC that Marcus aged 11 should live with one of the clubs families. He needed building up, needed a better diet than she could afford.
I simply do not understand how anyone can describe Raynor as "disgusting". You go on to say "what an example she sets. Does she make you proud to support the Labour Party". My simple answer is yes, she does. She credits Labour policies like Sure Start, education for Union members and representatives in helping her build a good life, rather than continuing the cycle of deprivation that should could have been destined to.
Angela wasn't my favourite Labour politician but all credit to her. She's a much better politician than the men opposite.

The fact is that there is no need for a child in this country to go hungry. There are enough benefits available for those who need them and use them for what they are intended i.e. not Cigarettes and drink. I cannot understand why people continue to have children they cannot afford to feed. I also do not understand how you feel that Angela Raynors behaviour was acceptable. The lady speaker obviously did not think so.

If you look at how many Thailand lost, it's a very small amount. But they were forced to wear masks, at gunpoint, temperature checked before going in shops etc.

This country is way behind. Should have dealt with it like some countries that are used to SARS.

Exactly MaisieD. MOnica, it is hard to see how anyone could do a worse job, other than Trump.

I am afraid this all looks to me like just more moaning from labour supporters who still haven't accepted the results of the last election.

I'm afraid you are wrong, MOnica. It's genuine concern from people who can see democracy being subverted by a government that has no intention of honouring our constitution and maintaining the rule of law and parliamentary sovereignty.

Complacency is not the best of moves in such a situation. That's how dictatorships take control.

Anyone who thinks a coup would make things better is off their trolley. Who would lead the coup. In this country certainly not the military, they have always been totally ininvolved in politics, and quite rightly.

The Corbynista Labour party? They have been rejected soundly.

One of the rightwing bully boy groups? They would be better than Boris?

I suggest that those who think the way forward is a coup tell us who would lead it, how it would be run and how we would return to Parliamentary democracy.

I am afraid this all looks to me like just more moaning from labour supporters who still haven't accepted the results of the last election.

Sorry Callistemon. Not with you?

Why do you not mention who or where was the cause of all this, Gagajo?

Gaga Letting 50,000 people die? Letting? I sometimes can’t believe the stuff posters come out with on forums.

Sadly sparklingsilver it seems not meant as a joke ( but I thought the same as you.)

When I first read this I thought it a joke!

Be careful what you wish for when you suggest insurrection. The far right rising all over Europe and fascism and anarchy a real threat.