Gransnet forums

News & politics

provocative phrases

(136 Posts)
PECS Mon 26-Oct-20 11:30:53

I noticed someone us the phrase virtual signaling on a thread.. It is on a par with politically correct.

It seems to me that people use these phrases, constructed deliberately as political put downs, to undermine someone /something that is trying to improve things for others.

Are the people who do this feeling uncomfortable or embarrassed by the action that they are deriding? If someone tries to to good by raising the profile of a charity or of a situation that is causing distress they are 'accused' of 'virtue signalling' as if it is a bad thing to try to improve things for other people.

If someone tries to improve the experience of others through challenging the status quo /currently accepted language/attitude etc they are 'accused' of being politically correct...as if it was a bad thing to be thoughtful of others!

Do these phrases grate with you or do you think they are valid?

growstuff Mon 26-Oct-20 18:19:12

PECS

I don't understand why the term 'karen' being used to refer to a particular female stereotype is racist. It is certainly used as a derogatory term but it excludes other white women too. More class related I would say. Not nice whatever we call it!

It became an internet meme.

There were hundreds of videos of American white women being racist. Most of them were stereotypical and were somewhat plump. I don't know why they were called "Karens" - I guess the fad started with a video of a woman called Karen. She's an elderly version of Vicky (?) in Little Britain.

lemongrove Mon 26-Oct-20 18:15:43

I agree with you there Varian ??

suziewoozie Mon 26-Oct-20 18:14:59

common stereotype
Karen is a pejorative term for someone perceived as entitled or demanding beyond the scope of what is appropriate or necessary. A common stereotype is that of a white woman who uses her privilege to demand her own way at the expense of others.
en.m.wikipedia.org › wiki › Karen_...
Karen (pejorative) - Wikipedia

I didn’t think hair colour came into it but either way both Karen and Gammon are IMO awful

varian Mon 26-Oct-20 18:11:55

I do think it is unfortunate when ordinary names suddenly become terms of abuse,

Fortunately I'm not called Karen, but I do know some lovely inoffensive Karens and this new Karen trope must be very hard for them.

Chewbacca Mon 26-Oct-20 18:10:18

Because the term "Karen" is us as a derogatory term specifically about white, or pale skinned, middle aged women with blonde or fair hair. If the same term was used as a descriptive derogatory term for any other ethnicity, would that be acceptable?

GrannyGravy13 Mon 26-Oct-20 18:10:12

Ok Chewbacca I wasn’t 100% sure hence the question mark.

Chewbacca Mon 26-Oct-20 18:05:25

Don't think so GrannyGravy; In 2018, it became particularly known as a term to describe either those on the Right-wing politics|political right or those who supported Brexit, a "gammon". The term refers in particular to the colour of such a person's flushed face, especially when expressing their strong opinions

PECS Mon 26-Oct-20 18:03:55

I don't understand why the term 'karen' being used to refer to a particular female stereotype is racist. It is certainly used as a derogatory term but it excludes other white women too. More class related I would say. Not nice whatever we call it!

GrannyGravy13 Mon 26-Oct-20 17:58:47

Chewbacca I thought the male equivalent was Gammon ?

Chewbacca Mon 26-Oct-20 17:56:45

Referring to white skinned women, of a certain age range, as a "Karen". It was used quite recently on GN to simply dismiss the opinions or thoughts of those that they didn't agree with. There is no male equivalent so it's not only racist, it's misogynistic too.

PECS Mon 26-Oct-20 17:47:28

growstuff phew..I don't have any to clutch! grin

suziewoozie Mon 26-Oct-20 17:37:08

Yes grow and imo is always faux

growstuff Mon 26-Oct-20 17:32:38

In that case PECS, you're not a "pearl clutcher" (as I understand it). My understanding (and I could be wrong) is that clutching pearls is like reaching for smelling salts.

PECS Mon 26-Oct-20 17:27:35

Ah well I use FFS in frustration ..a habit I know but I do not mind an occasional expletive. Either in my direction, if I have been a dumb-cluck about something, or at others who have messed up! I don't like to hear it as a regular part of someone's speech 'effing& blinding' but I do not consider an occasional swear word a sign of ill education or inability to use the English language with skill.

suziewoozie Mon 26-Oct-20 17:26:50

Pantglas2

....or just by throwing a glass of wine over your opponent ?’

That’s a joke, right?

Errrr- let me think about that.

Pantglas2 Mon 26-Oct-20 17:24:12

....or just by throwing a glass of wine over your opponent ?’

That’s a joke, right?

biba70 Mon 26-Oct-20 17:22:11

lazy and ugly perhaps, but more honest than 'chill'.

suziewoozie Mon 26-Oct-20 17:20:52

PECS

Swearing at another person in a debate can be a sign of losing reasoned debate OR it can be sheer frustration from a reasoned debater at another debater who is no longer debating with reason! grin

Beautifully put ?I also think it’s different online and in RL - the FFS, WTAF are useful online but in RL the whole discussion is different. You can emphasise points differently for one thing by facial expressions or just by throwing a glass of wine over your opponent ?

lemongrove Mon 26-Oct-20 17:18:55

It’s only a couple of posters who do it PECS.....everybody else manages to use reasoned debate.
Saying FFS to somebody is lazy and ugly in my view.

janipat Mon 26-Oct-20 17:18:46

suziewoozie Would you care to articulate what you mean please a little more clearly?

Sorry I do apologise, and I will assume you didn't intend to present yourself in a snarky, put down way! My post on this thread at 16.21 quotes two of your posts which seem to lack consistency. Perhaps you'd care to comment?

PECS Mon 26-Oct-20 17:14:46

Swearing at another person in a debate can be a sign of losing reasoned debate OR it can be sheer frustration from a reasoned debater at another debater who is no longer debating with reason! grin

suziewoozie Mon 26-Oct-20 17:11:04

janipat

May I refer you to my post of 16.21 which appears to show some lack of consistency?

Would you care to articulate what you mean please a little more clearly?

janipat Mon 26-Oct-20 17:07:12

May I refer you to my post of 16.21 which appears to show some lack of consistency?

suziewoozie Mon 26-Oct-20 17:06:44

You can see why I’m a gender critical feminist

biba70 Mon 26-Oct-20 17:06:08

typical internet Forum losing tricks- sad.