Another announcement

No matter what restrictions are outlined for Christmas large numbers of people will just ignore them. Add that to the thousands of students criss-crossing the country on their way home and there will be a huge surge in case numbers in January.
Young people will just plain go out and socialise and make sure the virus stays around. I just dont know how to make them care enough to change their ways just for a few months.

The saddest thing Jane10 is that the young people who are spreading the virus are the very group who will be affected the most in the long run. When they can’t get jobs after university, apprenticeship, or college, it will be because jobs have disappeared under the long lockdowns. I wonder if they’ll regret their behaviour then.

And for those who do get jobs, they’ll be paying for the lockdown spending for the rest of their lives. But I think they don’t think about this, they live for today.

It’s not really lockdown though is it. People can still mooch around marks buying anything from knickers to unnecessary Christmas fripperies. You can go for a walk with a friend. You can get a takeaway. You can have your personal trainer session and then he can go on to another four or five the same day. Small children can go the park. As far as I can see it’s just restaurants and cafes are closed and you can’t do any sport.

Not remotely sorry for him. Earlier this week that Parliamentary committee made the two horsemen of the apocolypse admit they were fudging the figures and making out that things were worse than they really are.

My confidence has always lain with Sir David Spieglhalter and Carl Heneghan and this week they were sitting pretty.

As for Boris. He is the Prime Minister, either he or his 'special advisors' should be sitting Whitty and Vallance down and asking probing questions about their statistics. It is the PM's, job to understand the science before he pontificates and, literally, lays down the law to the rest of us.

Yes, the government is dealing with a difficult situation, early confusion etc is understandable in the first few months. But it is nearly 8 months since the crisis started and they still cant tell their a***s from their elbows. I wouldn't trust Boris to arrange a drinks party in a brewery.

Nothing wrong with Whitty and Vallance. The problem is the virus and how to get people in large parts of the country to play ball. We're not alone. Virtually all the countries in Europe are in the same or worse position than us.

IMO Starmer hasn't just challenged the government, he's done plenty of criticising.

He is right to criticise. The government has handled this very badly. Why would he not criticise?

Correct Jane.

What should have been to handle it well? Please don’t quote New Zealand, there’s absolutely no comparison.

When they can’t get jobs after university ........... I wonder if they’ll regret their behaviour then.

And it won't just be because those jobs have disappeared. Doesn't it occur to the students of Manchester Metropolitan University that no employer is going to want to take on applicants from an establishment where they tear down railings and trash the site? All this behaviour and the animosity it creates could seriously jeopardise their chances in the job market.

I recommend this as a read. unherd.com/2020/11/the-governments-covid-scaremongering/?tl_inbound=1&tl_groups[0]=18743&tl_period_type=3 and/or this timeforrecovery.org/ and its 'Five Reasonable demands.

It explains exactly what the government is doing wrong, mainly not thinking through their measures.

Shutting pubs at 10.00pm without working out that when everyone leaves the pubs/bars/cafes at 10.00pm it ends up with very crowded streets and no social distancing. Announcing the first lockdown to come in place immediately a wonderful summery hot weekend is forecast and then being amazed when every one rushes out to take advantage of the weather, countryside/parks etc before shutdown.
Completely failing to foresee the effect the virus would have on the care sector so care homes and their carers were left without sufficient PPE, had to take residents with coronavirus back into homes and has completely failed to address the awful effect on the mental and physical health of residents and their families this excessively long period without contact would cause. Even after the problem of care residents was known still do nothing focussed or planned to help them, just weakly bleating about Care homes knowing best. Those deliberately misleading statistics and their totally incompetent presentation last weekend

I could go on and on, butrI won't. Just read the two links I have given.

Jane10

Nothing wrong with Whitty and Vallance. The problem is the virus and how to get people in large parts of the country to play ball. We're not alone. Virtually all the countries in Europe are in the same or worse position than us.

Need to get tougher sorry. It’s no good airy fairy stuff about us all pulling together and this is “advice “ .police saying they won’t fine people they’ll just advise them...... if it needs doing they need to enforce it.
Australia are in an excellent position (yes I know about the population etc) because they got tough quickly by closing borders and making people quarantine , not to mention an excellent track and trace from the start.

I know what you mean Lucca but serious enforcement of restriction to civil liberties is a very hot potato indeed!

Jane10 I know and nobody is prepared to be unpopular!

MOnica
My feelings exactly. I've also read the links you put up.
But thank god a lot of people are now taking note and analysing what's being said and the figues given out instead of just following like sheep.

Ellianne

^When they can’t get jobs after university ........... I wonder if they’ll regret their behaviour then.^

And it won't just be because those jobs have disappeared. Doesn't it occur to the students of Manchester Metropolitan University that no employer is going to want to take on applicants from an establishment where they tear down railings and trash the site? All this behaviour and the animosity it creates could seriously jeopardise their chances in the job market.

Any employer who would seriously assume that anyone is a bad bet because they studied in an institution where some students took this action is not likely to be a good one anyway.

I can't see it jeopardising any chance of a half decent job, to be honest.

I think it depends what the job is Doodledog. Certainly in my experience where staff lists sell the product to discerning customers, coming from a uni with a reputation for bad behaviour would not be helpful.

Jane10 is right, how do we get people who don't care to change their behaviour? I think we have all seen this very selfish "me me" attitude developing over the years, but no one realised how difficult it was going to be to reign people back in and get them to comply. Getting tough requires becoming unpopular as Lucca points out. The longer it goes on the more fed up the public becomes and the less we all pull together. I have no idea what it will take to get on top of this virus, I respect those who are trying their hardest in all areas, but I'm afraid I cannot understand why anyone would blatantly behave in such an uncaring and obstreperous manner.

Ellianne

I think it depends what the job is Doodledog. Certainly in my experience where staff lists sell the product to discerning customers, coming from a uni with a reputation for bad behaviour would not be helpful.

But the University doesn't have a reputation for bad behaviour. The behaviour of the VC was questionable IMO, and a small percentage of the students reacted badly. If that means that 'no employer is going to want to take applicants' from Manchester, then the world has truly gone mad.

There cannot be a university in the country where there have not been student problems at some time of another, including Oxbridge.

I do not think it will make any difference to any amployer that a student comes from the latest university to have problems. When I recruited new graduates it would not have affected me. the things that would have counted would be where the university was ranked for the subject that had been studied, what class the degree was and what the applicant was like. Did they have initiative, were they intellectually curious.

It is very easy to berate those members of the public who break rules, but we need to look to the government to find out why this is happening.

Ministers and their advisors who flout the rules and get off without any comeback. Has the SNP MP who egregiously broke the rules, including using public transport when suffering from COVID resigned yet? I thought not.

As for the whole irrationality of many of the rules, just go back to my previous post and read the links.

If the government wants people to obey the rules then they should obey them themselves and take the punishment when they don't. Make rules that make sense and are not self contradictory, not try and deceive us with statistics that are deliberately misleading. Give an impression they know what they are doing, because that is not the impression they give at present.

I think you misunderstand me. I couldn't care less whether it were students from, Manchester University, Bath or St. Andrew's. The point is that at this current time of unprecedented crisis, names may well stick in the mind of institutions whose students didn't comply with rules and showed rebellion. Exeter University had one of the highest outbreaks in the country. It came down hard on its students with suspensions and was able to get things quickly under control. Maybe I should wait and see how other places fare, but I know where my respect lies.

BlueBelle

Don’t feel one iota of sympathy for him
Be careful what you wish for
I can’t bear to watch all this, every radio station, newspaper, tv
I ve done day 1, is that it, can we come out now

Oh, Bluebelle!! Once again you have written what I feel.
Thanks

Ellianne Surely the question must be whether they were justified in their actions, not whether the university cracked down and as I have said, I think the behaviour of the government itself is so disregarding and disrespectful of the population and the rules, that I am firmly on the side of the students.

Ellianne

^When they can’t get jobs after university ........... I wonder if they’ll regret their behaviour then.^

And it won't just be because those jobs have disappeared. Doesn't it occur to the students of Manchester Metropolitan University that no employer is going to want to take on applicants from an establishment where they tear down railings and trash the site? All this behaviour and the animosity it creates could seriously jeopardise their chances in the job market.

It wasn't Man Met. It was Manchester Uni. My daughter was a student there for four years and it didn't and doesn't have a reputation for bad behaviour. She walked into various jobs, including the Civil Service Fast Stream, and now has a senior job in her late 20s.