Who are the Working Class these days?

I’m another who feels that the British obsession with class is a problem. It is assumed that anyone who has ‘done well’ but supports Labour is some sort of hypocrite, which is ridiculous. Look at the people who bang on about Kier Starmer’s peerage.

As has been said, party support is based on one’s morals and beliefs. There are various loaded ways to describe these, but I will try to be neutral and suggest that they boil down to individualism versus State provision.

I see no conflict between people having a decent job and their own home whilst wanting equal opportunities for all.

The need for Trade Union support is not the preserve of the unskilled either. Anyone who works for anyone else should remember that the conditions of service they now enjoy had to be fought for in the past, and may have to be again if we take our collective eye off the ball.

I don't particularly see it as a traditional 'class' thing. It's more about belief systems and core values. The LP represents my belief systems and core values more than any of the other parties nationally.
The Unions aren't the power they once were. We no longer have the manufacturing, engineering, ship building, mining etc industries. We also no longer have closed shops and many people choose not to join the Union (whilst being very happy to enjoy the benefits the Unions obtain for them)
Young people are more likely to vote Labour, which I think has always been the case. If the LP does split it will be interesting to see whether the Union or the socially democratic group gets most support.
I fear a split may condemn this country to even longer tory misrule.

It would seem that many in this thread are stating and comparing what were the working class in their youth with what are the working class today which I feel are two totally different working environments. I left school in the 1960s at a time when there were more jobs around than there were people to fill them. Therefore on leaving school I found employment consisted of secure jobs on guaranteed hours with such things as agency working and zero hours contracts not even allowed under the law. Today it is totally different with very many now working on the above contracts and Gig Economy terms of employment for agencies which are engaged to supply workers to workplace sites so companies that run and own those sites do not have to take on any responsibility for those worker whatsoever.

It is such places as the huge distribution centres that supply the supermarkets and online retail industry that have replaced Britain's heavy industry were employment was guaranteed and well paid and were workers could easily become trade union organised to protect there terms and conditions.

The new distribution centres employ similar numbers to the old factories, but workers find it near impossible to organise to better their employment conditions as many different agencies may have workers employed in them and the anti trade union legislation makes it so that even your employer becoming aware that you are a member of a trade union can swiftly see you out the door.

In those places are to be found Britain's working class of today. They are on no guarantees of pay or hours, or when those hours may start or when those hours may finish from day to day. Many are trying to maintain families and homes on those terms with growing numbers from rural areas sleeping in vans around those centres as that is the only way enough hours can be found at reasonable rates of pay to maintain there homes and families.

That is today's modern working Britain and the true working class within it.

No unions = rubbish terms & conditions for the workers nowadays. Look at the gig economy right now. All the cards are stacked in favour of the employers. ‘Self employed’ suits them to have as their workers!

No pension, no sick pay, no holiday pay, no lunch breaks etc. Employ a man & van to deliver? Yep, bring your own van mate, insure it yourself. Deliver out on the road and oh, sorry for you in Covid times, no public toilets so go and urinate behind that tree over there because you can’t go into anyone’s house. Problem with it? Off you pop.

X posts Nanfer5g!
Spot on.

Discussion about social class belongs to a time before everybody in the UK had the vote. Voting eligibility was based on property ownership. The unions played an important part in winning universal suffrage. Those divisions no longer exist and the unions have lost their traditional voting base.

Some on the left think that people always belong to a structural class and people can't escape it. For them, social mobility presents many challenges because identity politics (racism, sexism) wasn't important.

Welcome back !

These days, many millions of union members work in public services in the NHS, education or other public services.

Nanfer5g - that is why I fear that it's going to be difficult for a TU run party to attract members now.
I was running through my mind all the old TUs - especially the coalminers and shipbuilders of my youth in the NE. It was a personal and emotional matter.
It's a completely different scene now.
So how to continue the the appeal to the voters?

That is today's modern working Britain and the true working class within it.

So is the brave new Socialist party exclusively for them, then, Nanfer5g?

growstuff, indeed. Why do we need to stick labels on ourselves and everyone. If so, I'll call myself a mongrel.

Iam64

Welcome back !

If we work or worked, we're all working class.

Fennel

Nanfer5g - that is why I fear that it's going to be difficult for a TU run party to attract members now.
I was running through my mind all the old TUs - especially the coalminers and shipbuilders of my youth in the NE. It was a personal and emotional matter.
It's a completely different scene now.
So how to continue the the appeal to the voters?

I fear that the Labour party has become an irrelevance to many who work on the huge distribution centres and there likes throughout Britain. The Labour parties continual arguing around such matters as anti Semitism etc means nothing to those workers as Starmer as far as I am aware has never spoken on the conditions those workers are employed under. Corbyn last year joined a demonstration outside of an Amazon "fulfilment centre" but many in the executive of the Labour party seem to wish to dissociate themselves from the action and not speak on it.

It is that many who work in poor employment conditions must hold "individual" membership of a trade union as just before Covid crisis struck Britains trade unions held membership of over six and a half million and that figure was rising. However, until the Labour Party or a new party of the left makes itself relevant to the needs and aspirations of those who work in such places it can never obtain a secure voting base.

Many I feel who work in such conditions probably do not even bother to vote as they see no point in doing so, as no party represents or speaks in support of them.

I was in a union pre retirement and worked for the NHS. Most NHS staff are in a union, as are most teachers. These people are not manual workers nor do traditional working class jobs so a new party for union members is a bit nonsensical.

Elusivebutterfly

I was in a union pre retirement and worked for the NHS. Most NHS staff are in a union, as are most teachers. These people are not manual workers nor do traditional working class jobs so a new party for union members is a bit nonsensical.

I do not believe that anyone has said that a fresh left wing party should be for trade union based members only. It should most certainly speak in support of those people but it must also accommodate others on low income and in poor housing etc.

The ordinary public do not give a toot about the class structure. They mix with anyone and the only classification is money; size of house and car, and life style they can afford.

Strictly speaking practically all of us are workibg class because we all need to work for our living and the majority will have financial problems if there is no money coming in for more than a month or two.

I am a union member and I would not join a left wing party whose membership is limited to union membes. I never paid the political party levy anyway. I decide what political party, if any I contribute to, not other people.

The far left types who hate Starmer won't worry that a new party for union members is "a bit nonsensical".

They can't cope with their hero Corbyn no longer leading the Labour Party so they will create a new party for him to lead and they will be able to join their hero on demonstrations, making speeches and attending events that they wish to be seen at.

The Tories will love the new party too as it will guarantee them staying in power for decades to come.

Nanfer5g, and do you think that any of the MP's who are tucked up in their grand houses will give a fig for those on low incomes and poor housing ? Because I don't. Nobody seems to give a sod so long as they're alright Jack !

Because they all live the high life they haven't got a clue how the other half lives, they're blinkered.

A new party for union members would be a total waste of time because 6.5 million members are a minority. It would reduce the power of the Labour Party and no doubt go the way of the Social Democrats (although a very different group) before them.

Unfortunately the PLP can do little whilst the Tories have a large majority. Labour Councils can do even less because their funds have been drastically cut by Tory govts.

I remember seeing a group of middle aged men on Channel 4 News just before the GE. They were working, away from home on zero hours contracts and bed hopping. They were asked who they were going to vote for. The answer "Boris because he'll see us right". Whilst that attitude prevails there is no hope.

People complain about Starmer not putting forward his plans for the future. What's the point when there are 4 years to the next GE? Someone wrote on a different thread that no one believed in the LP's manifesto and that it was uncosted. My understanding is that it was costed and, until Corbyn started talking about broadband for everyone and one or two other last minute proposals I suspect most people approved of the ideas set out the manifesto but believed the Tory press that it was far too expensive.

Today we have the announcement of 16.5 billion for the armed forces and security. Why - because Johnson wants to show that Britain is Great.

Ellen Vannin I think that is an outrageous thing to say. I know of many people of wealth and standing who are generous and charitable and do indeed understand the problems of living in poverty.

Of course, they are not the ones that hit the headlines, much of their generousity and help is done quietly and without trumpeting it to the skies.

I was talking about MP's in general M0nica so stop being so over the top with your " outrageous " comment. They can spend public money with ease but how many put their hands in their own pockets ?

If you use the socio-economic of working class it's "Working class" is a socioeconomic term used to describe persons in a social class marked by jobs that provide low pay, require limited skill, or physical labour". There are millions in this country (UK) on low pay who have been let down by successive Governments, blue and red. However, as a volunteer advisor seeing a small fraction of working class people in my area they need a significant boost in public expenditure and a rebuilding of local government to give them a chance in life or their kids. The present Mayor of London was brought up by working class parents living in a Council flat and that his how they were able to send their son to University to get a Law Degree. Will the Tories invest in people? Not likely. Mrs May was right and she still is right. The Tories are the nasty Party. They look after the rich and now are so openly corrupt they give Government contracts to their friends while bleating that we cannot afford to help poor children with free school meals over the School Holidays. Can Labour? Doubtful at the moment as they are too busy fighting each other. So it looks gloomy for the working class. As for the Trade Unions they have been in my opinion a busted flush for decades. They represent 23% of working people and three quarters of the 23% are public sector workers. We need community unions based on fighting for people' needs in a local area. Giving advice. Opposing speculative development. Helping tenants who are victims of bad landlords and so on. Looking grim for the working class at the moment. An enormous failure of the political class.

There seems to be a common misconception on here that the working class have always supported Labour, of course they haven't. Alf Garnett typified those who were Conservative supporters, Robert Tressel wrote about the exploitation they accepted in The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists. There have always been people who didn't want to support those poorer or weaker. Just as there have always been philanthropic wealthy socialists.

Excellent, AbeLincoln.

The working class, by definition, includes all those who work for a living. Many think they're 'middle class' - whatever that is. The upper class have inherited wealth and assets.

We used to define class (when I was a girl) by father's occupation (or wealth) and where you lived. That no longer applies. It assumes a two parent family where the father is breadwinner.

Fennel makes many assumptions. Here in London, we have strong support for the Labour party, especially amongst younger people - of all 'classes'. People vote for what they believe in, not just according to their perceived status.