Who are the Working Class these days?

No you certainly dont EV my parents and GP's will be birlling in their graves at how the labour movement lost its way .I haven't voted labour for decades ,I'm a card carrying member of the SNP which is the most left leaning party in the UK .Thats one of the reasons some on here dislike them ,they spend money on people at the hard end of life,Mitigate the bedroom tax so people aren't punished for needing an extra room,the baby box makes every child welcome free prescriptions ,so you dont have to choose between your medication and food ,free uni education...which was offered to English students BUT only if the WM government reciprocated and paid for Scots in the English system.Westminster refused...as they do and then talked us down for giving free education to ONLY Scots !!Extra help forfamilies with children under 6 £10 a week ,theseare children who miss out on school meals FREE school meals for up to and including P3 and meals during holidays for all children of families who need help .Free personal care for anyone with disabilities,thats help with showering and taking care of themselves.Evictions are NOT allowed in Scotland for the forseeable future ,we cant chuck folk on the streets because they lost jobs during the pandemic.
I'm pleased with the SNP ,not EVERYTHING but then all political parties should be open to criticism and we have along way to go to get some things right.Thats why Labour is dead here and wont be resurrected .All we need now is Independence and we get ALL our income to work with instead of funding things like HS2 or London crossrail or Big Ben refurb .

EllanVannin

Nanfer5g, and do you think that any of the MP's who are tucked up in their grand houses will give a fig for those on low incomes and poor housing ? Because I don't. Nobody seems to give a sod so long as they're alright Jack !

Because they all live the high life they haven't got a clue how the other half lives, they're blinkered.

I do not believe that many of the members of the present Labour Party party give "a fig" for those working in poor employment conditions with its often associated poor housing as well. That is why a fresh party of the left is becoming ever more likely to be established from within the trade union base.

That party would speak in support of such people and their families with a new leadership drawn from people with wide working experience outside the present Westminster bubble. I am thinking that such people as Steve Turner or Steve Preddy of the Unite Union hopefully could be attracted into the leadership of a new well funded party and act as an anchor for its core base support, and then build from there.

Elusivebutterfly

I was in a union pre retirement and worked for the NHS. Most NHS staff are in a union, as are most teachers. These people are not manual workers nor do traditional working class jobs so a new party for union members is a bit nonsensical.

Exactly! That's the point I was making.

Good post AbeLincoln.

AbeLincoln regarding your post at 20:59 today, I believe I have read that Starmer has announced the ending of the Labour Party community based branch and support plan. The Party is facing a financial crisis despite receiving more that seven million in funding from the trades unions since last December. Nearly five million of that amount came from Unite members alone.

The Labour Party is the most well funded political organisation in Europe but its huge bureaucracy and total inefficiency has led it to its present financial position. So, the first thing it cuts is support for communities that are most in need of backing.

Starter at his best. ?

Should be Starmer at his best in my above post.

A political party started by trade unions and dominated by Unite might as well consign itself to the history books now.

growstuff

A political party started by trade unions and dominated by Unite might as well consign itself to the history books now.

The present Labour Party was formed out of the trades unions over one hundred and twenty years ago. It also has been financed throughout that time by those same trades unions. Many of its MPs until recent years have held positions in the trades union prior to moving into a political role. In that the Labour Party has existed as one of the two major political organisations in the United Kingdom throughout that long history.

Why then should any new party emerging into British politics from the same background not achieve the same success????

Is there some sort of script?

As the song says 'the working class can kiss my a**e, I've got the foreman's job at last'.

Government statistics do not talk in terms of class, that is so yesterday and we are talking about today. They talk about Soci-economic groups.

I think these are grossly out of date as well. The days when working class meant horny-handed sons of toil, middle class meant collar, tie and mortgage and upper class meant professions or private income are long gone.

Nowadays, solicitors, teachers and University academics live in Housing Association rented properties because they cannot afford to buy and good tradesmen live in their own houses and probably earn more as well, these divisions are outdated. Graduates can, for decades, earn no more than their parents in manual jobs.

I would cut out all socio demographic dividions and just class people by income only, expressed as percentages of the average age.

He who pays the piper calls the tune.

In the UK politics has been dominated by two well funded parties- one funded predominantly by trades unions and the other by big business and wealthy donors.

It is absurd to believe that these two parties do anything other than promote what they see to be the best interests of their funders.

The one thing they have long agreed on is the preservation of the undemocratic FPTP voting system which they know will allow them to impose their policies on the whole population although most of those who voted voted against them.

This has resulted in damaging lurches to the left or right, a colossal waste of time and taxpayers money, a rejection of consensus and an increasingly divided society

Nanfer5g

growstuff

A political party started by trade unions and dominated by Unite might as well consign itself to the history books now.

The present Labour Party was formed out of the trades unions over one hundred and twenty years ago. It also has been financed throughout that time by those same trades unions. Many of its MPs until recent years have held positions in the trades union prior to moving into a political role. In that the Labour Party has existed as one of the two major political organisations in the United Kingdom throughout that long history.

Why then should any new party emerging into British politics from the same background not achieve the same success????

Society has moved on in a hundred years. For a start, in the late nineteenth century, the country didn't have universal suffrage. Secondly, the jobs people do have changed. Thirdly, the unions weren't the only forces behind the Labour Party.

A Unite-dominated political party would not be sustainable, especially as most of its current membership is male.

Exactly, the concept that unless you, your parents and grand-parents, and great-grandparents, etc- worked down a pit or heavy industrial work- you cannot consider yourself to be 'working-class' is nonsense. And to consider all white colour workers and public services employees, be they nurses or teachers, etc- are all 'Champagne socialists' is also nonsense and so limiting (and insulting tbh).

Hetty58 says "The Working Class, by definition, includes all those who work for a living". With respect that is a not very satisfactory explanation. Examples of people who work for a living are HRH The Prince of Wales, the Governor of the Bank of England, the CEO of Dyson right the way through to a train driver, a school teacher, a shop assistant down to a refuse collector or street sweeper. They all work for a living but I would not describe HRH Prince Charles or Andrew Bailey as "Working Class"

I would welcome a party who recognises the North West of the country !

I was speaking to a friend on the phone this morning and she too is sick to the back teeth of us NWesters being left in the cold.
There's proof enough with our figures for Covid.

I know that the concept of 'Working Class' is now almost meaningless.
But how otherwise can a new political party identify itself in the minds of the electoret? sp?
As well as having acceptable socialist principles, our priority should be to present an effective opposition to the Tories.
How to combine the two?

AbeLincoln I quote from my post of yesterday 20.41
Strictly speaking practically all of us are workibg class because we all need to work for our living and the majority will have financial problems if there is no money coming in for more than a month or two.

The Prince of Wales et al can manage to live very well without the day job. He will not be signing on after a month or two.

By posting here Fennel I think this question is being asked of a microcosm of the British voting public, some admit to being working class, but are not on the whole now working. The facts demonstrate that there is an increasing propensity for people to vote Tory as they age - self preservation and a loss of the altruistic thinking that so many of the younger generation have. It makes me sad. I hope that Labour can find their way, and it does give me some hope that will happen with Keir Starmer in charge of the party, it’s already obvious that he runs rings round our esteemed PM because he has a sharp mind and does his homework.

The concept of class and the the division between classes has been damaging to the progress of this country for a long time.

We should direct our support to non-classed based politics and work for the good of all, irrespective of the out dated labels still bandied about.

The Liberal Democrats exist to build and safeguard a fair, free and open society, in which we seek to balance the fundamental values of liberty, equality and community, and in which no one shall be enslaved by poverty, ignorance or conformity.

Varian, people vote tactically, though. A Labour vote is often an anti-Tory vote, so we wouldn't 'waste' a vote on the smaller Lib Dems.

I agree Hefty. Many votes are cast against the worst choice rather than for the best choice. If we lived in a democracy with a fair voting system people would be free to vote positively rather than negatively, whjch would surely encourage far better participation in the democratic process.

As DH always says 'there may be no party you want to vote for, there is usually one you can vote against.

How do we define working class these days? My mother was born in 1931 and at that time the division between the middle and working class was very definite and in essence was defined by education. Unless you passed 'the scholarship' you were destined to leave school at 14 and work in shop/factory/shipyards/mine ext thus perpetuating a continuation of class from one generation to the next. The few attained a better education and through that were able to put one foot on the upwardly mobile ladder towards middle class occupations. My mother always made distinctions between those who worked in overalls and those who worked in suits. She saw social class as something you could judge by type of work, which was facilitated through education.

These days? Far more difficult to define. Born of aspirational working class parents whose 3 children are me, a teacher and two executives ...do our roles in life define us ...or our backgrounds? Maybe we can be defined by who we married. Does that change our social class in that it has a bearing on our children? I married a lovely working class man who is my rock. But is he working class? His job says yes, his interests ...lay preacher, which he studied for in his spare time, local landscape painter, avid reader may say something different. Does it matter? We and our very diverse friends don't think so.
When it comes to politics I think it's a mistake to define all labour voters as 'working class'. You don't have to, in your own life, need a better provided social state to know that it is right to provide for the weakest in our society. I vote labour, but so far, thank God, me and mine don't need social state provision. There are very few of us though who don't need a well provided National Health Service though and that costs money. I. for one, am willing for my taxes to rise substantially to pay for this and other benefits. Does that make me working class? I haven't a clue and I don't care that much.

My own family is diverse. My mother's grandchildren? 2 teachers, one solicitor, one chartered accountant and an executive. With all three of her children brought up in a council flat in the North East of England. However things don't look so great for her great grandchildren. I would like to think that they will have the same opportunities. Sadly though, I think politics have changed and too many people are prepared to vote in an 'I'm all right Jack way' which pulls up the draw bridge on those who come after us.

Good post 52bright.
So much has changed in politics since WW2 except that the Tories still manage to hold onto the power they've had for hundreds of years.