Who are the Working Class these days?

Elusivebutterfly

I was in a union pre retirement and worked for the NHS. Most NHS staff are in a union, as are most teachers. These people are not manual workers nor do traditional working class jobs so a new party for union members is a bit nonsensical.

Exactly! That's the point I was making.

EllanVannin

Nanfer5g, and do you think that any of the MP's who are tucked up in their grand houses will give a fig for those on low incomes and poor housing ? Because I don't. Nobody seems to give a sod so long as they're alright Jack !

Because they all live the high life they haven't got a clue how the other half lives, they're blinkered.

I do not believe that many of the members of the present Labour Party party give "a fig" for those working in poor employment conditions with its often associated poor housing as well. That is why a fresh party of the left is becoming ever more likely to be established from within the trade union base.

That party would speak in support of such people and their families with a new leadership drawn from people with wide working experience outside the present Westminster bubble. I am thinking that such people as Steve Turner or Steve Preddy of the Unite Union hopefully could be attracted into the leadership of a new well funded party and act as an anchor for its core base support, and then build from there.

No you certainly dont EV my parents and GP's will be birlling in their graves at how the labour movement lost its way .I haven't voted labour for decades ,I'm a card carrying member of the SNP which is the most left leaning party in the UK .Thats one of the reasons some on here dislike them ,they spend money on people at the hard end of life,Mitigate the bedroom tax so people aren't punished for needing an extra room,the baby box makes every child welcome free prescriptions ,so you dont have to choose between your medication and food ,free uni education...which was offered to English students BUT only if the WM government reciprocated and paid for Scots in the English system.Westminster refused...as they do and then talked us down for giving free education to ONLY Scots !!Extra help forfamilies with children under 6 £10 a week ,theseare children who miss out on school meals FREE school meals for up to and including P3 and meals during holidays for all children of families who need help .Free personal care for anyone with disabilities,thats help with showering and taking care of themselves.Evictions are NOT allowed in Scotland for the forseeable future ,we cant chuck folk on the streets because they lost jobs during the pandemic.
I'm pleased with the SNP ,not EVERYTHING but then all political parties should be open to criticism and we have along way to go to get some things right.Thats why Labour is dead here and wont be resurrected .All we need now is Independence and we get ALL our income to work with instead of funding things like HS2 or London crossrail or Big Ben refurb .

The working class, by definition, includes all those who work for a living. Many think they're 'middle class' - whatever that is. The upper class have inherited wealth and assets.

We used to define class (when I was a girl) by father's occupation (or wealth) and where you lived. That no longer applies. It assumes a two parent family where the father is breadwinner.

Fennel makes many assumptions. Here in London, we have strong support for the Labour party, especially amongst younger people - of all 'classes'. People vote for what they believe in, not just according to their perceived status.

Excellent, AbeLincoln.

There seems to be a common misconception on here that the working class have always supported Labour, of course they haven't. Alf Garnett typified those who were Conservative supporters, Robert Tressel wrote about the exploitation they accepted in The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists. There have always been people who didn't want to support those poorer or weaker. Just as there have always been philanthropic wealthy socialists.

If you use the socio-economic of working class it's "Working class" is a socioeconomic term used to describe persons in a social class marked by jobs that provide low pay, require limited skill, or physical labour". There are millions in this country (UK) on low pay who have been let down by successive Governments, blue and red. However, as a volunteer advisor seeing a small fraction of working class people in my area they need a significant boost in public expenditure and a rebuilding of local government to give them a chance in life or their kids. The present Mayor of London was brought up by working class parents living in a Council flat and that his how they were able to send their son to University to get a Law Degree. Will the Tories invest in people? Not likely. Mrs May was right and she still is right. The Tories are the nasty Party. They look after the rich and now are so openly corrupt they give Government contracts to their friends while bleating that we cannot afford to help poor children with free school meals over the School Holidays. Can Labour? Doubtful at the moment as they are too busy fighting each other. So it looks gloomy for the working class. As for the Trade Unions they have been in my opinion a busted flush for decades. They represent 23% of working people and three quarters of the 23% are public sector workers. We need community unions based on fighting for people' needs in a local area. Giving advice. Opposing speculative development. Helping tenants who are victims of bad landlords and so on. Looking grim for the working class at the moment. An enormous failure of the political class.

I was talking about MP's in general M0nica so stop being so over the top with your " outrageous " comment. They can spend public money with ease but how many put their hands in their own pockets ?

Ellen Vannin I think that is an outrageous thing to say. I know of many people of wealth and standing who are generous and charitable and do indeed understand the problems of living in poverty.

Of course, they are not the ones that hit the headlines, much of their generousity and help is done quietly and without trumpeting it to the skies.

A new party for union members would be a total waste of time because 6.5 million members are a minority. It would reduce the power of the Labour Party and no doubt go the way of the Social Democrats (although a very different group) before them.

Unfortunately the PLP can do little whilst the Tories have a large majority. Labour Councils can do even less because their funds have been drastically cut by Tory govts.

I remember seeing a group of middle aged men on Channel 4 News just before the GE. They were working, away from home on zero hours contracts and bed hopping. They were asked who they were going to vote for. The answer "Boris because he'll see us right". Whilst that attitude prevails there is no hope.

People complain about Starmer not putting forward his plans for the future. What's the point when there are 4 years to the next GE? Someone wrote on a different thread that no one believed in the LP's manifesto and that it was uncosted. My understanding is that it was costed and, until Corbyn started talking about broadband for everyone and one or two other last minute proposals I suspect most people approved of the ideas set out the manifesto but believed the Tory press that it was far too expensive.

Today we have the announcement of 16.5 billion for the armed forces and security. Why - because Johnson wants to show that Britain is Great.

Nanfer5g, and do you think that any of the MP's who are tucked up in their grand houses will give a fig for those on low incomes and poor housing ? Because I don't. Nobody seems to give a sod so long as they're alright Jack !

Because they all live the high life they haven't got a clue how the other half lives, they're blinkered.

The far left types who hate Starmer won't worry that a new party for union members is "a bit nonsensical".

They can't cope with their hero Corbyn no longer leading the Labour Party so they will create a new party for him to lead and they will be able to join their hero on demonstrations, making speeches and attending events that they wish to be seen at.

The Tories will love the new party too as it will guarantee them staying in power for decades to come.

The ordinary public do not give a toot about the class structure. They mix with anyone and the only classification is money; size of house and car, and life style they can afford.

Strictly speaking practically all of us are workibg class because we all need to work for our living and the majority will have financial problems if there is no money coming in for more than a month or two.

I am a union member and I would not join a left wing party whose membership is limited to union membes. I never paid the political party levy anyway. I decide what political party, if any I contribute to, not other people.

Elusivebutterfly

I was in a union pre retirement and worked for the NHS. Most NHS staff are in a union, as are most teachers. These people are not manual workers nor do traditional working class jobs so a new party for union members is a bit nonsensical.

I do not believe that anyone has said that a fresh left wing party should be for trade union based members only. It should most certainly speak in support of those people but it must also accommodate others on low income and in poor housing etc.

I was in a union pre retirement and worked for the NHS. Most NHS staff are in a union, as are most teachers. These people are not manual workers nor do traditional working class jobs so a new party for union members is a bit nonsensical.

Fennel

Nanfer5g - that is why I fear that it's going to be difficult for a TU run party to attract members now.
I was running through my mind all the old TUs - especially the coalminers and shipbuilders of my youth in the NE. It was a personal and emotional matter.
It's a completely different scene now.
So how to continue the the appeal to the voters?

I fear that the Labour party has become an irrelevance to many who work on the huge distribution centres and there likes throughout Britain. The Labour parties continual arguing around such matters as anti Semitism etc means nothing to those workers as Starmer as far as I am aware has never spoken on the conditions those workers are employed under. Corbyn last year joined a demonstration outside of an Amazon "fulfilment centre" but many in the executive of the Labour party seem to wish to dissociate themselves from the action and not speak on it.

It is that many who work in poor employment conditions must hold "individual" membership of a trade union as just before Covid crisis struck Britains trade unions held membership of over six and a half million and that figure was rising. However, until the Labour Party or a new party of the left makes itself relevant to the needs and aspirations of those who work in such places it can never obtain a secure voting base.

Many I feel who work in such conditions probably do not even bother to vote as they see no point in doing so, as no party represents or speaks in support of them.

Iam64

Welcome back !

If we work or worked, we're all working class.

growstuff, indeed. Why do we need to stick labels on ourselves and everyone. If so, I'll call myself a mongrel.

That is today's modern working Britain and the true working class within it.

So is the brave new Socialist party exclusively for them, then, Nanfer5g?

Nanfer5g - that is why I fear that it's going to be difficult for a TU run party to attract members now.
I was running through my mind all the old TUs - especially the coalminers and shipbuilders of my youth in the NE. It was a personal and emotional matter.
It's a completely different scene now.
So how to continue the the appeal to the voters?

These days, many millions of union members work in public services in the NHS, education or other public services.

Welcome back !

Discussion about social class belongs to a time before everybody in the UK had the vote. Voting eligibility was based on property ownership. The unions played an important part in winning universal suffrage. Those divisions no longer exist and the unions have lost their traditional voting base.

Some on the left think that people always belong to a structural class and people can't escape it. For them, social mobility presents many challenges because identity politics (racism, sexism) wasn't important.

X posts Nanfer5g!
Spot on.

No unions = rubbish terms & conditions for the workers nowadays. Look at the gig economy right now. All the cards are stacked in favour of the employers. ‘Self employed’ suits them to have as their workers!

No pension, no sick pay, no holiday pay, no lunch breaks etc. Employ a man & van to deliver? Yep, bring your own van mate, insure it yourself. Deliver out on the road and oh, sorry for you in Covid times, no public toilets so go and urinate behind that tree over there because you can’t go into anyone’s house. Problem with it? Off you pop.