How long should this last ?

rosecarmel my post was a riposte to Gagajo's comment The fact is, white lives have ALWAYS mattered*

That comment is not true and I listed white groups that have been treated with utter disregard contempt and cruelty for long periods. The extent of my comment went no further than that.

I am absolutely with the movement to make Black Lives Matter. I just think these gestures become mechanical and meaningless if continued too long but are remembered as special when, like in the UK, we had a limited summer campaign of shouting, clapping and banging sucepans. We will always remember it as special because it had an end point and did not outlive its welcome and gradually dwindle away.

It needs to continue as long as racism exists. Those Milwall fans were very racist and disrespectful.
My long term partner Is West Indian, we like football, we have been to the matches. On one occasion at a away match, which I had driven 150 miles too, a fan called out get the ball you lazy N..... during the match, no one challenged him and when they saw my partner I caught them sniggering. I said something to him and the half wits who laughed with him.
So yes let's carry on with it, and call out this racism. BLM are not saying white lives do not matter they always have, what they are saying is Black lives matter.
These footballers are not show boating, what a ridiculous thing to say, they are highlighting something that really matters.

It is apparent from a few of the comments in the media and on here, that BLM does need to keep making their presence obvious, that players do need to keep kneeling. If people at matches don't like it for some weird reason of their own, they are perfectly at liberty to stand quietly for the minute or so that it takes. I attend my local WI, and we stand at the end of very meeting to sing the National Anthem. I am silent and respectful of other people's views, I do not boo. My opinion on the event is not relevant to other people's right to express their support for the Royal Family.

Loislovesstewie I'm sorry that's how it came across because of course I mean the absolute opposite. Maybe its the phrase I used, "None of those people were discriminated against because they were white.", meaning it wasn't their whiteness that caused them to be discriminated against, there were other reasons. I certainly didn't mean to imply there had been no discrimination or that it didn't matter.

BLM is a movement trying to make a difference for people who are discriminated against, just because they are black. It doesn't mean that there isn't any other kind of discrimination and it is wrong to say something like "Well other kinds of people suffer too so these people can't draw attention to their problems."

Alegrias2; I am asking because I found your comment to be rather odd, as though the discrimination didn't matter because they are distinct ethnic minorities but not black. Some of the most reviled people in European history have been those groups. The first victims of Hitler's mass murder were actually Gypsy children ; he experimented on them in order to see if the poisons used would work. Then, of course, he sent Gypsies to the camps to annihilate them in the same manner as he sent the Jewish population to their deaths.
Prejudice, racism and genocide take many forms.

Loislovesstewie

Why do you think Gypsies/Romanies/Travellers and other minorities are discriminated against then?
Disclaimer ; my husband's family are Romany.

Is that question directed to me Loislovesstewie?

I think that is a bit of a loaded question. I think they are discriminated against because they are "other"; because they are seen as a threat to the majority of people who live according to the narrow rules of what society thinks is right and acceptable. Its no better than discriminating against someone because of the colour of their skin. But it doesn't lessen that discrimination either.

If I have got that wrong, please help me understand.

Rosecarmel I briefly saw the picture of Casey Goodson the one you have put up, To be armed with a bag of sandwiches from subway and to be shot down for that is appalling.

Over here in the U.K for the last four weeks there has been a selection of films about black people (all based on total true events) and written by a black author director.

The company is called Small Axe films the director Steve MacQueen he is a black man. The last of the films is this Sunday.
The films cover times back in the 60s and 70s in London and Brixton and parts of the films show the savage beatings and treatment of black people at that time. Also the degree of institutional racism in the police force. I am aware what goes on but these films were well presented and a real eye opener. I have watched them every week and they were an excellent watch in my opinion.

Why do you think Gypsies/Romanies/Travellers and other minorities are discriminated against then?
Disclaimer ; my husband's family are Romany.

I hope M0nica that your post is born out of naivety and not racism. None of those people were discriminated against because they were white. Black people are discriminated against because they are black, no other reason.

I lived in Australia for a few years. An aboriginal woman, incidentally an opera singer of some renown, collapsed at a bus stop. People stepped over her for 5 hours because "she was probably drunk".

www.smh.com.au/national/opera-singer-left-for-dead-wins-apology-20060308-gdn3sv.html#:~:text=Ms%20Barton%20is%20a%20highly%20respected%20indigenous%20elder

Why do you feel so strongly that black people shouldn't be allowed to make their case? Next time anybody comes around raising funds for "Help the Aged", will you tell them they aren't entitled because children need support too?

Esspee

*vickymeldrew*. What are your feelings on the subject?

?

I don't think they should be banned- They're evidence- Their booing just goes to show how many people have yet to understand that black people are treated brutally by police-

Just last week in Columbus, Ohio a young black man was shot on his doorstep, while entering his own home, by a deptuty- He was armed with a bag of sandwiches from Subway- His family was also inside the house-

His name: Casey Goodson- He was 23 years old-

How long should this last?

It should last as long as the players themselves decide it should. The people that have been registered booing on the security film, should be banned from entering football stadiums for a very long time.

I agree with you, M0nica- The "have nots" here come in every color- All treated poorly- I could kitchen table talk until the cows come home about financial inequities but ..

Hell .. I could scream it from the rooftop .. !

But that's not what this thread is about- It's specific-

No they haven't, not if you are Irish, Italian, Gypsy, and whole groups of white people who have, at various times, been treated every bit as badly as black people. Read some of the stories that came out of Ireland during The Famine.

I think it is great that the non-violent, peaceful protest of taking the knee is evolving into a way to refute racism. Football is notorious for having racist fans. This way, the whole team can indicate at the beginning of a match that racism is not accepted. It takes one or two minutes maximum and is a visual cue to tell racists to naff off.

All lives matter is linked to a neo nazi group, Merlotgran. I am sure a lot of people don't realise that and thus don't realise how offensive it is. The fact is, white lives have ALWAYS mattered.

merlotgran have you read up on why “all lives matter” is deemed inappropriate? I’d love your thoughts

rosecarmel

Because "saying" and "believing" that all lives matter in the eyes of God doesn't cancel out the truth that people are not treated equally- As a result, the kneeling will continue indefinitely-

That needs to be repeated over and over

rosecarmel

Because "saying" and "believing" that all lives matter in the eyes of God doesn't cancel out the truth that people are not treated equally- As a result, the kneeling will continue indefinitely-

So right

Monica the bottom line is people do make futile gestures. Why all this now since George Floyd ? All this about BLM.

I am talking about seeing 8-10 year old children having racist slurs shouted at them by adult men at football matches for kids. Where was BLM for us mums of black kids they were not around it was us women at those matches that chased people like them out of the match that stuck up for those kids and looked for change in society. It's a long time coming just like I said it's been decades.

There is certainly a long way to go all well and good for them footballers to take the knee that is not nearly enough and heaps more need to happen for me to be satisfied.

3nanny6 No outrage about the fight to take the racism out of football (and anywhere else). Just a desire to see people get going and actually do something about it rather than waste their time making futile gestures and thinking that is sufficient.

Why all this outrage for the fight for racism in football? (although I am even more bothered with discrimination/racism that goes on everyday in all walks of life.

Getting back to football some years ago I attended youth football with my son as he was a keen footballer and was good, when we travelled to matches the coach and others that managed the team would know what teams were considered to be racist and the kids of colour were told ignore them they are ignorant. This is complete truth so it is a disgusting society we live in when adults who watch their children play football will use racist slurs to youths playing football and it goes on all the time.
The problem is that there is a huge inequality gap in society and huge steps need to be taken to address it. All this
take the knee and other gestures have only come about from the George Floyd incident and B.L.M group and as awful as the death was of George Floyd was we need so much more done in U.K to rid black people of stereotyping
and being the ones at the bottom of the pile.

This racism has gone on for decades it is no new thing and my opinion is coming from a black/mixed heritage background.

Because "saying" and "believing" that all lives matter in the eyes of God doesn't cancel out the truth that people are not treated equally- As a result, the kneeling will continue indefinitely-

As a catholic I was brought up to believe that all are equal in the sight of God. In other words, all lives matter equally.

I thought that was what equality was about. Something may be offensive within a narrow context but I will continue to believe say that all lives matter.

Why should one absolutely justified movement like Black Lives Matter, hijack an innocent phrase full of meaning and the basis of all equality and decide it is offensive.

merlotgran

Will somebody please explain why ‘All lives matter’ is offensive?

www.vox.com/platform/amp/2016/7/11/12136140/black-all-lives-matter

From all the way back in. 2016

www.parents.com/kids/responsibility/racism/reasons-all-lives-matter-doesnt-work-in-terms-simple-enough-for-a-child/
More recently

I'll have a go merlotgran.

For centuries people of colour have been disadvantaged in Western societies. The disadvantages seem to be greater in the US with its history of slavery, but no country is immune.

The BLM movement is trying to show that for all these years the discriminatory treatment given to people of colour has been downplayed and dismissed. When somebody says "All lives matter", the implication is that the thing the BLM protesters are protesting about is trivial, and that they don't have anything more to protest about than any other person. It belittles their situation. In my opinion, that is why it is offensive.