New EU Treaty - a good deal or not?

EU fans “squeaking “. “Crowing”. And “parroting “. Apparently....

Yes of course I am really fucked off that I am more likely to be able to get my son’s medication I really wanted him to risk a seizure so I could say ‘told you so’.

Urmstongran

Just catching up on yesterday’s Sunday Telegraph ....

“The reactions seem, at first blush, to be back to front. Eurosceptics are supposed to want looser ties with the EU, yet they are applauding a long and comprehensive agreement with it. Europhiles are meant to love Brussels, but they can’t disguise their annoyance that a deal has been done.

Here, fairly typically, is Anna Soubry, who left the Conservatives to campaign against Brexit: “Never before has a country so spectacularly shot itself in the foot. We are no longer ‘Great’ Britain or a United Kingdom.” This, remember, is not her response to leaving the EU, which happened 11 months ago; it is her response to agreeing cordial relations.

Neither Soubry nor anyone else has had a chance to digest the 1,246 pages of text, of course. The treaty was published only yesterday. But ignorance has not stopped people opining with certainty and, often, with fury.”

Absolutely, which is what I have been saying too.
It’s amusing to watch the EU fans squeaking indignantly about the deal, when they have spent all year crowing that
‘Johnson didn’t want a deal’ and that they ‘hoped all who voted Brexit would now pay the price of highly expensive food in the shops or face empty shelves’!
Even on GN posters are claiming they know all aspects of the deal.....and think it’s a ‘poor’ or a ‘thin’ deal ( parroting what they have read somewhere) hilarious.?

I think what is beginning to emerge is that businesses like German car industry, manufacturing etc in European countries had pressured Brussels to negotiate a tariff free deal, that has been achieved.

The service sector which is the uks biggest sector by income, appear to have been sidelined in the interests of Eoropean manufacturing.

Poor show on our part.

(Anyone who voted Remain). The headbanging faction may be annoyed, I don’t know.

I don’t know anyone annoyed that a deal has been done when the alternative is no deal.

I’ve only seen that opinion from Brexiteers & the Torygraph.

Just catching up on yesterday’s Sunday Telegraph ....

“The reactions seem, at first blush, to be back to front. Eurosceptics are supposed to want looser ties with the EU, yet they are applauding a long and comprehensive agreement with it. Europhiles are meant to love Brussels, but they can’t disguise their annoyance that a deal has been done.

Here, fairly typically, is Anna Soubry, who left the Conservatives to campaign against Brexit: “Never before has a country so spectacularly shot itself in the foot. We are no longer ‘Great’ Britain or a United Kingdom.” This, remember, is not her response to leaving the EU, which happened 11 months ago; it is her response to agreeing cordial relations.

Neither Soubry nor anyone else has had a chance to digest the 1,246 pages of text, of course. The treaty was published only yesterday. But ignorance has not stopped people opining with certainty and, often, with fury.”

Gove doesn’t have to lie.

They all choose to. Populists do that.

david thank you for that. So we have definitely left Galileo? Seems a shame as isn’t it the most accurate system? Well, I suppose the USA intelligence have a more accurate one for killing people.

We still haven't heard everything on the EU Treaty yet. Boris has trumpeted the good bits but I wouldn't mind betting there are some more unpleasant parts of it which will come to light gradually over the next few weeks. Overall, it is better than a no-deal.

Why would he lie by the way? The info is all all available to be read.

Gove has consistently lied ever since he became a key member of the Vote Leave campaign. His lies are well documented and available to anyone who cares to look for them.
He lies because he knows that most of the people who he's lying to either have their biases confirmed by his lies, or will take him at face value and not bother to check.

Of course, it's not always outright lies; sometimes it's more a case of truth twisting...

Of course, his prime reason for lying at the moment is that he cannot possibly admit that it's a thin deal that will cause costly inconvenience to businesses and erosion of our economy. He lies because he has to.

Why would Gove lie? Are you serious?

Gove tried to tell us that having to fill in all these extra forms (at a cost estimated by HMRC of £7 billion) would make UK businesses "match fit" for tradinv with the rest of the world.

Unbelie eable!!! Just shows his utter contempt for the listeners !

If that's what you wanted to hear from it then I'm happy for you.
I read the article he wrote on today's paper and it seems better than I'd thought. Why would he lie by the way? The info is all all available to be read.

Just heard Gove lying again on the radio. Had to switch off. Trying to pretend it would all be so much better and much smoother filling in umpteen forms and sod the fishermen and Northern Ireland.

Whitewavemark2

However I am still open to an answer to my question???.

My sense tells me that we must still be using the Galileo system as how on earth are we to navigate if not?

It might be that as it is a civilian system, our military will have to stop using it? I know that doesn’t make sense, but how else are we leaving? Maybe in research?

There are 4 satnav systems GPS (USA) Galileo (EU) Glonass (Russia) Beidou(China). The vast majority use GPS which is open source for general use, the US has committed to maintain the system for public use without degradation, so navigation breakdown will not happen.
Galileo was developed as a civilian alternative to GPS and has a communication system added, modern navigation instruments are able to switch between different systems. As we are NATO members the military will be using GPS for sure.

The bottom line is, brexit supporters will think it’s marvellous whatever the details are - they admit it on here. Whereas it was all “we are taking back control of our waters” is shown to be a complete lie and conveniently forgotten, with 80% fishing still being owned by foreign corporations and a few wealthy individuals, and the EU getting the concessions it wanted. We had a taste of no deal chaos at Dover and the free trade of goods was essential. So we gave in rather than paid, but guess what people actually don’t care. They don’t care about academic, scientific or police cooperation either , happy to sit back and let those giant intellects of the tory party gaslight the apathetic majority. They admit it.

However I am still open to an answer to my question???.

My sense tells me that we must still be using the Galileo system as how on earth are we to navigate if not?

It might be that as it is a civilian system, our military will have to stop using it? I know that doesn’t make sense, but how else are we leaving? Maybe in research?

LauraNorder

A spokesman for the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy said: “The government has set a clear ambition for a sovereign space programme which will bring long-term strategic and commercial benefits for the U.K. Work is ongoing across government to determine the U.K.’s positioning, navigation and timing requirements, and assessing options for meeting them.

“The U.K. will not participate in the EU’s Galileo programme. Current OneWeb satellites are used to deliver satellite communications services.
Definitely scrapping Theresa Mays hugely expensive plan.
Answers all over the internet WW if you really want to know instead of trying to look as though you have a superior intellect with your questions.

Is asking a question now classed as showing superior intellect?

Bit weird.

I looked and looked, but couldn’t find the answer, only I thought that we had abandoned the planned replacement as late as this autumn?

Well I guess we will find out on Jan 1st. Anyone planning a flight that day????

“ of trying to look as though you have a superior intellect with your questions.”

Bit rude if I may say

A spokesman for the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy said: “The government has set a clear ambition for a sovereign space programme which will bring long-term strategic and commercial benefits for the U.K. Work is ongoing across government to determine the U.K.’s positioning, navigation and timing requirements, and assessing options for meeting them.

“The U.K. will not participate in the EU’s Galileo programme. Current OneWeb satellites are used to deliver satellite communications services.
Definitely scrapping Theresa Mays hugely expensive plan.
Answers all over the internet WW if you really want to know instead of trying to look as though you have a superior intellect with your questions.

Does anyone know if we have left the Galileo system? If so what are we going to rely on?

Perhaps the truth is that leavers will be mollified because “Brexit is done” regardless of the deal?

maizie that’s why I am trying to get some comment from ardent leavers. I can’t see that they can possibly be prepared to accept this deal. It seems to go against everything they were arguing for.

I was fully expecting to be appalled by 1st January, but the wind has been totally taken out of my sails!

Of course there are problems but I am astounded tbh.

And what is the ERG going to say.? Not that it makes any odds to the deal as it will get through.

I am prepared for anyone to tell me that I have got it wrong and that in fact it’s def and not abc but at the moment I am amazed!

What we mustn’t forget is that lions share of the U.K. trade are services and that has yet to be negotiated.

Sticking my neck out, it’s too soon to be critical,

Not too soon for the trade negotiation experts, the business people, the lawyers, journalists and other interested experts, who spent their Christmas and Boxing days examining the published deal (1500+ pages) and posting their conclusions on social media.

The consensus so far seems to be that the EU have got what they wanted and made some cosmetic concessions to the UK.

The UK has tariff and quota free access to the single market for goods (but not services) while it continues to comply with EU standards and regulations. An 'arbitration body' in the case of disputes that is not the ECJ, but is made up of 'judicially qualified (i.e judges) persons from the EU & UK. And this new Partnership Council of 19 committees and 4 working groups to meet regularly to monitor the implementation of the FTA.
So, a bit BRINO...

I for one am very pleased we have a deal, it will take time to find out all the detail, already tge stock market is going up and business more hopeful.

I'm quite surprised at how calmly Leavers are taking this, seeing that it binds us pretty closely to the EU.
I'm interested in what the ERG group will have to say to it...

As to business being more hopeful, only in so far as it is not 'no deal'. Anger at being given such a short time to prepare, and worry about the impact of non tariff barriers on SMEs which trade with the EU. As this thread demonstrates:

twitter.com/Flakmagnet1/status/1342817805180297219

Ostriches don't need to read it, of course...