A big thank you to those who voted for Brexit

How come you’re in thrall to doctors Maybe, and don’t hold them to account - it’s ok to hold lay people with a vote to account but not professionals?

Nope, sorry. Not something I ever encountered.

I’m going back to my article on happiness. This constant Brexit battering is exhausting as I try to field questions from all comers!

So you’ve never come across someone having problems with a generic and having the problem ignored by their doctor. Therefore, in your world it doesn’t happen. Fair enough.

I feel as though I’m in the dock tonight!
?

I worked for the NHS for 40years MayBee but I fail to see the relevance here.

Regards Millgram.
“Why was Milgram experiment unethical?
The first ethical issue was the degree of deception. The participants were not provided with a clear explanation of any possible risks prior to volunteering for the study, rather they were lead to believe they were causing physical harm to another individual, exposing them to potential psychological harm.”

And -

“What was the conclusion of the Milgram experiment?
Stanley Milgram reached the conclusion that people would obey instructions from those who they saw as legitimate authority figures, even if the instructions they received were to do something to harm another person. From this, Milgram concluded that people were socialized to follow immoral or unlawful orders.“

So in answer to your question,
No, not in my case.
You’re stretching it by assuming that (a) I’m uncaring and (b) that I didn’t do my own independent research before voting for Brexit.

Oh & btw I don’t do FB so adverts couldn’t have influenced my decision either.

Slavish obedience to authority, not a big Milligram fan myself!

Urmstongran

^But you don’t feel in any way responsible for this do you Urmstongran?^

Well, it would be an enormous burden to place on my shoulders. Surely if dragonfly’s doctor has any concerns they will discuss them going forward? I do not think for one minute her symptoms will be ignored if they persist.

So the answer to my question is yes. Millgram at work.

Urmstongran

^It's gone for people who can only see crime as a way out as well and you will be living with the consequences, and those running the country do not care and will not stop it^

Bluddy hell thats pushing it PippaZ. Some deep disturbing thoughts you’re pushing tonight.

Hyperbolic stuff & nonsense, in my opinion.

Wasn't that what they were saying to people who tried to point out the issues with Trump?

You may not agree with it UG but that doesn't make it nonsense. Would you like me to add some quotes? I am hardly the only one looking at this.

It's gone for people who can only see crime as a way out as well and you will be living with the consequences, and those running the country do not care and will not stop it

Bluddy hell thats pushing it PippaZ. Some deep disturbing thoughts you’re pushing tonight.

Hyperbolic stuff & nonsense, in my opinion.

Whitewavemark2

The leavers are busy enjoying their sovereignty, they couldn’t care less about all the struggling businesses.

This is the sovereignty that those who where in charge of getting us out, come hell or high water, see as personal or individual sovereignty. The sort that allows them to pay as little as possible to anyone working for them and take away the laws that protect them. The sovereignty that allows them to pay little or no tax and affords them the privilege of being able to pay for all the privatised medicine, dentists, bin men, etc. while the same "sovereignty" allows many to starve, live on the street, have only the old women down the road to deliver their children while living in their "small state" economy.

Just like Trump, the ERG and it's hangers on did not want to "free" the UK for it's people but for what they could achieve for themselves. This is just the beginning. Although Johnson has chipped away at our Justice system, our parliamentary system and our very democracy we are just about hanging on to a democratic country. We could stop these people. Obviously we are unlikely to get back to the days of affluence and influence we have known but never let it be said that the "Leavers" were not told. Each time they take a state provision away remember it's gone from you and yours too if a time ever comes when you need it. It's gone for people who can only see crime as a way out as well and you will be living with the consequences, and those running the country do not care and will not stop it happening because they will thrive under it.

But you don’t feel in any way responsible for this do you Urmstongran?

Well, it would be an enormous burden to place on my shoulders. Surely if dragonfly’s doctor has any concerns they will discuss them going forward? I do not think for one minute her symptoms will be ignored if they persist.

Urmstongran

I don’t ‘sit back’ and enjoy anybody’s ill health WW. That was a pretty insensitive remark.

I’m very sorry indeed dragonfly to hear your change of medication is causing you to have side effects.

When we buy a branded drug like Neurofen which is expensive, we are reassured to be told that generic ibuprofen works just as well. We are paying the branded firm for their advertising costs etc.

I wonder what your doctor thinks?

I hope you get it sorted soon. I’m genuinely sorry you are struggling.

But you don’t feel in any way responsible for this do you Urmstongran? It’s like the Millgram experiment isn’t it? For what it’s worth I used to work for the NHS and can remember a doctor once being furious that a patient had been given a generic. Sometimes just a small difference in formulation can cause problems, especially, eg drugs for epilepsy

Being warn down with having to face the results of your actions doesn’t compare to a child having severe epileptic fits throughout the day because Prescriptions from third countries cannot be accepted from outside the EU.

It was always known that this was the case, it was warned times and again.

Project fear you all chortled.

Brexit is DONE.
We are out of the EU jurisdictions (well most of them).

If only, we are hamstrung by the threat that if we change or they change there may be tariffs or even bans. There is no prospect of a US trade deal anytime soon if at all, they will of course sort out the export paperwork, it the global opportunities that are not to be seen. All the promises look to be just hot air.

dragonfly I would like to reiterate what Urmstongran has posted

Thank you dragonfly for saying that. It means a lot especially as, at present, you have more to be upset about than most on here right now.

I hope your symptoms subside as they can’t be pleasant and may well be upsetting. I also hope your doctor can offer you an alternative or some reassurance going forward. x

It’s dispiriting isn’t it lemongrove. Wears me down after a bit.

So, I turned instead to read an article in the Guardian on happiness.

This sentence jumped out at me - coming straight from this gloomy thread -

“The research shows we make happiness mistakes all the time: we complain too much, thinking we’re letting off steam, but do so at the cost of noticing the good things in life.”

Just about summed it up for me tonight.

Oh gosh Urmstongran you don’t need to apologise to me. You are not responsible. It is what it is. My glass is always half full and I am sure these problems will be ironed out. Just a bit down at the moment.

U.K. Gov’s demand that external companies have to register with HMRC, and pay VAT in advance, is key reason many won’t now sell to individuals in U.K.
#BrexitShambles

Urmstongran

No I didn’t think that at all WW.

Plus the Remain campaign did not say that would be the outcome if we didn’t vote ‘their’ way.
I do recall a poster who regularly told us about isotope shortages but has never mentioned it since so I presume that hasn’t happened either?

I genuinely do not believe our government would jeopardise our health. Negotiations on medicines will have taken place over many months. Nothing in the news about adverse outcomes?

I really don’t know where you get the patience.As you say earlier, we are only 8 days in.
All the hate directed at voters who voted to leave the EU is sickening...... particularly from ( presumably)mature women.

P.s. it isn’t ‘ALL’ either. As you well know. Such hyperbole.

Your scattergun attack is exhausting to even try to unpick varian.

Some of it is very old ground which at the time I commented upon fully, to the best of my own research abilities. Check out my historic posts if you can be bothered.

Now?
No thanks. I’m not going over it ad nauseam. Too boring for those reading this thread.

Brexit is DONE.
We are out of the EU jurisdictions (well most of them).

It’s time to move on.

The CBI, the TUC, the Bank of England, our universities and research bodies, all of our trade and professional organisations- all supported Remaining in the EU. - in other words the "experts" that Gove told the guillible leave voters to despise.

Just imagine where we might be now without the experts who developed the covid vaccine - would you rather just rely on Gove and the rest of the Vote Leave liars?

The CBI have great form in getting their analyses wrong. Wise people discount their predictions.

If the U.K. decides to opt out of a club in order not to abide by the club rules or pay the membership fee they can’t expect the club to provide the same services.