The E.U. And AstraZeneca row.

Just bumping this up -not original, a friend got it off Facebook but I think it sums it up rather well

If you’re wondering what the whole EU vaccine row is all about, this is my understanding of the whole EU, Ireland, vaccine thing explained in pizza terms for the simple minded:-

New pizza restaurant opens;

?- Who wants ??

??- Yep, please, pepperoni and shed loads of it!!

?- Ok, ??, while I’m making the ?? order, do you want anything?

??- Yes please but hold on! Everyone what are we having?

??- Pepperoni
??- Plain cheese
??- Anchovies
??- Mushroom
??- Pineapple ?

????????- Who the f —- invited ??? We are NOT having pineapple you heathens!!

?- Well while you decide we’ll crack on with the ?? order ?.

(Some hours later)

??- We too shall have pepperoni!

?- Great we’re just dealing with the ?? order but will start yours ASAP! All ovens fired and we’re cracking on.

??- No! We have ordered!! You shall deliver to us NOW!!!

?- Well, you can have a few but we really do have an obligation to deliver ?? theirs first.

??- Fine, then we shall block the garden path to the ??. No more pizza for them until we get ours!!!!

??- Who left the side gate open?! ?? ffs why haven’t you shut your gate?

??- You said we could keep it open so we can still go and see next door and take them stuff. You said it was a good thing.

??- We said that to try and strong arm the UK into not leaving us!!

??- But........

??- (Mutes ??) It’s ok we have the key, just lock it anyway.

Sinn Fein- I focken dare yous to touch our gate!!!!

??- ??? Erm...we’ve talked to the ?? and decided NOT to lock the gate. We shall wait patiently in line for our ? and see if there is a calm & rational way to speed up production.

QED

Welshwife

There is a lot of different opinions then - the Israelis found that one dose gave something like 33% protection so the article I read today said.
But it still begs the question that the U.K. are doing well and have plenty of vaccine so why are they still waiting 12 weeks to do the second dose?

The 33% has been completely debunked.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55734257

Swiss pharmaceuticals giant Novartis said Friday it had signed an initial agreement to help produce the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine against Covid-19, as countries scramble to boost supplies.

Oh, wonderful! I am pleased.

I know that Novartis also outsource the production of their medicines so perhaps they may start production in other countries too.
Good news.

There is a lot of different opinions then - the Israelis found that one dose gave something like 33% protection so the article I read today said.
But it still begs the question that the U.K. are doing well and have plenty of vaccine so why are they still waiting 12 weeks to do the second dose?

Yes Kim it’s the AZ vaccine made here and ‘finished’ by either a biotech firm in Wrexham or in Germany. It’s what they are contracted to do by the firm.Because the product is finished there doesn’t mean that another country can commandeer it.That’s what I heard on radio 4 this morning.

Welshwife subsequent to the post from Mamie sorry, I can’t do links.

I heard on telly this morning that UK is shipping bulk vaccine to Germany for them to put it in phials and return it. This may have been going on for a long time. Can anyone confirm or refute this for me, please?

Second vaccine dose timing

Has the above thread somehow been subsumed into this one, or has all there is to say about the AZ/EU debacle been said then?

PS Bravo !la Suisse?? ??

Have you read the link Mamie put up? - tells what Israel has found with the doses.

I was told that it’ll be ‘about’ 12 weeks before my 2nd dose.
Just happy to have had the first.

The reason the second dose is being delayed has been explained several times by the government. Their reasoning is that as the first dose does give some protection it’s better for more people to be protected against severe illness than a percentage being totally protected. I understand why.

Welshwife I have not got an appointment for a second dose. I suspect that now that a lot more vaccinations centres are opening it may not be 12 weeks. It is not about supply of vaccine but manpower to issue it.

Yes I find that odd too Welshwife. My friends who were done in the first week when it was opened to the over 75s will have their second dose and be fully vaccinated in a couple of weeks. I thought this was interesting.
www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/israel-is-warning-that-a-single-dose-of-the-pfizer-vaccine-is-less-effective-than-we-hoped-against-covid-19-and-it-could-be-a-blow-to-the-us-and-uk-strategies/ar-BB1cVdHV?ocid=st

Because this thread is about the AZ/EU Maybee and not about very old news/politics.This isn’t the thread to bring up complaints about the Conservative government in general.....
Blimey! There have been many threads on that.

I see no evidence of national vindictiveness on here. The UK government acted well, we are happy that this is the case. The EU acted badly and we are not happy about that.
Our most vulnerable citizens will be vaccinated and surplus will be shared with the poorest countries as is the way of the UK.
Happy and satisfied citizens is not vindictiveness but being unable to acknowledge that our government has done something well simply because they are not of your own political persuasion is vindictive

Can I just say that several of us have been highly critical of the way the EU have behaved in this instance. And it would be nice if some people could find it in themselves to actually criticise the U.K. government when they are in the wrong eg proroguing parliament etc.

If all is going as well with the vaccinations and supplies are plentiful why is the U.K. govt still insisting on three months between the doses against the advice of the scientists which is more like three weeks?
As far as I can see here people having the first dose are given an appointment for the second dose before they leave the venue.

yes biba here in the UK we are very proud that so many of our citizens are being vaccinated against this dreadful killer disease and glad that the government got it so right.
Our own ( and other) governments don’t get everything right by a long chalk, but in this case they absolutely did.
The EU have acted very wrongly indeed and know it.It’s an early warning ( if one were needed) of their intentions and tactics when the chips are down.

crowing is not about being proud, but about being nationalistically vindictive. Massive difference.

MayBee70- as said, I agree. However, nothing will change the fact that Johnson very loudly threatened to use Art 16, 'without hesitation' and he has never backtracked on that either.

Agree. Nationalism at all cost makes no sense- because, in EU or out- Covid has no borders. We can close the borders short term, and it should have been done months and months ago- and certainly NO travelling over Christmas- but in the long term, we all depend on each other. Being 'proud' is one thing ...

That’s great news biba. The U.K. ordered lots of the Sanofi vaccine so it’s good to see the factories will be put to good use. To be fair to the USA as well Operation Warp Speed ploughed a lot of money into vaccine development. If ever the world needed to work together it’s now. And let’s give some credit to the EU that admitted they were in the wrong very quickly. I was very angry with them!

For the hundredth time, not agreeing with you is not not accepting the vote.

EU caused outrage on Friday evening when it invoked Article 16 of the post-Brexit mechanism, to stop the unimpeded flow of vaccines from the European bloc into the Province.

Brussels subsequently reversed the move following condemnation from London, Dublin and Belfast.

Arlene Foster said it was an “absolutely incredible act of hostility towards those of us in Northern Ireland”.

As for flag waving, crowing and having pride in our own country and being happy that we have now vaccinated over 8million people and that our vaccination program is first class. Well tough I'm proud of the UK, proud that I am English and proud that I voted to Leave the corrupt and undemocratic EU and I'm sick and tired of all the Boris and UK bashers who are mostly Remainers who still after over 4 years haven't accept the vote.

Yes, Johnson threatened to use art. 16 mid January, saying he would not hesitate to do so - setting a precedent himself. He has never withdrawn this threat either.

The problem was not that the EU was badly organised on procurement. They advanced vast sums of money to help with production, on the agreement they would then receive their fair share. So problems with production capability has been the problem.

but fear not, good people, little Swizerland is coming to the rescue ;)

Swiss pharmaceuticals giant Novartis said Friday it had signed an initial agreement to help produce the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine against Covid-19, as countries scramble to boost supplies.

The rare act of cooperation -- in an industry usually marked by cut-throat competition -- comes after French pharma group Sanofi announced earlier this week that it would also team up with rivals Pfizer and BioNTech to help produce 125 million doses of their jab.