Scottish independence, English me would like to understand

Battle of Trafalgar and battle of Waterloo. I watched an interesting programme on HMS Victory and we came very very close to being taken over by Napoleon if it had not been for Nelson and Wellington. There is a story of French troops landing in Wales but were thwarted by the ingenuity of the Welsh ladies who marched out wearing their National costume with pointy hats which scared them off.
Bonnie Prince Charlie got as far as Derby in 45. If only he had kept going we would have had a Stuart back on the throne.

MaisieD as you seem to espouse all things Scottish I thought you might be pleased with their victory yesterday. Idk who was the best team as I didn’t watch it but they won. Always had a soft spot for the Scots even though I am a Sassenach and I don’t think the English are better than the Scots nor do I look down on them in any way. If anything I expect them to look down on me! As it is we get on. Would be a dreich day otherwise.

GrannyRose15 Alba is an old name for Scotland.

MaizieD

Then tell me about all the wars fought on our island by continental forces in the interim. None.

Sorry to have to disabuse you of that idea, MaizieD, but there was a strong contingent of French forces who fought at the battle of Lincoln in 1217.

And they almost won.

Are Orkney and Shetland part of Scotland? Were they part of Alba?

The Jacobite army wasn't Scots , or just Scots .the Jacobite cause was for the crown of England too.The Bonnie Prince wanted the Stuart crown back for the whole UK .His army of Scots was only because thats where he gained most support .I think they got as far as Durham ,not altogether sure as I've never been a royalist and didn't study the Jacobite rebellion .

I have been led to believe a lot of the clans who fought with Charlie thought he was after the Scottish throne and were unhappy when they discovered they were just being used for his own purpose and not the restoration of Crown and Parliament in Edinburgh .Probably someone who knows better will come along and correct me.

Gifted I beieve by a King who married his daughter off to an early Scottish King...now I'm really digging deep into my memory ..The Maid of Norway she was nicknamed but I cant tell you what her real name was or what her Fathers kingdom was

GrannyRose15

MaizieD

Then tell me about all the wars fought on our island by continental forces in the interim. None.

Sorry to have to disabuse you of that idea, MaizieD, but there was a strong contingent of French forces who fought at the battle of Lincoln in 1217.

And they almost won.

Thanks. Mediaeval history isn't quite my period.

But what fun....

The English barons invited the French over.

So, it's a bit of an oddity. French attempt at conquest or internecine warfare?

www.battlefieldsofbritain.co.uk/battle_lincoln_1217.html

The maid of Norway was a tragic story. She was the only child of the king of Norway and his Scottish wife, and was the only surviving decendant of Alexander 111 of Scotland inheriting the Scottish crown when she was just 3 years old. She was betrothed to Edward of Caemarfon, son of Edward 1st of England and finally set out for her new country in 1290 but died in Orkney aged 8.

MaisieD as you seem to espouse all things Scottish

I don't. I just think that they are welcome to be independent if that's what they want. And I don't mean that in an aggressive way. I like Scotland and I like the Scottish people I've met.

I'm not deeply attached to The Union

Actually I think that it was Alexander III falling off his horse that started all this trouble ?. He was on his way to see his young wife through a stormy night when he was thrown off his horse and died. When the Maid of Norway died, the Scots nobles decided to ask Edward I of England who he thought should be king of Scotland. I can't remember how he was related to Scotland but he quite fancied it for himself and it all went downhill from then on!

As the unofficial anthem (or rather, one of them) has it, "those days are gone now, and in the past they must remain".

I'm English-born, a Woollyback from the Wirral. I lived most of my first 60 years in England and only came here to Glasgow in retirement, but I feel right at home here. What strikes you first of all, after just a few weeks here, is how very different it is in feel, subtleties of everyday life, and even differences in law that can possibly catch you out (though you aren't likely to get into deep trouble) which make you feel that this is distinctly a different country in the way that Wales isn't.

More alarming is to realise, when you watch or read the London-based media, that there's very little about Scotland in 'national' news and general interest content. It's only when you've been here a while that the implications sink in of London newwsreaders saying "The north" when they mean Manchester, which is three hours on the train ~south~ of here - Glasgow is in the south of Scotland too, there's an awful lot of north to go to from here.

It's hard not to sympathise when Scots feel like they are a quaint afterthough, all tartan, shortbread and pipes and not a modern country the size of Denmark or New Zealand and just as capable of making its own way in the world as they do. After all, in the course of human history it's not that long since Scotland was a proud, independent nation. How many English people know that at Agincourt Scotland was on the other side? Nobody ever taught me that. Vive la vielle alliance! Alba gu brath!

So that's why, to return to that song, many Scottish people are feeling "that we can still rise now, to be the nation again that stood against him".

He was the Maids grandfather I think ,To be honest Independence isn't about the past its about moving forward to a better future ...better then we can expect as a poor relation...as we have been labeled ..of England
.We aren't a Poor relation and we are perfecty capable of running our own affairs FOR Scotland by people who live work and contribute to Scotland NOT by 533 English MP's who can over rule every and any proposals we have for our future .Independence is NORMAL

Great post *Lady Honoria" .

I don’t think we saved countries in Europe from themselvesbut from Nazi Germany under Hitler.

Um, you know the UK didnt do that alone, right??

Kapitan

Lets not forget that the Act of Union came about because in 1707 Scotland was bankrupt. Maybe, if pushed too far, Boris will blow the dust off the dusty pages of the draft Alien Act.

The Alien Act?
How would that be at all relevant Kapitan?

which make you feel that this is distinctly a different country in the way that Wales isn't.
That bit did made me laugh, though.
At least all signs, all official documents, phone calls, notices etc are in English so no wonder you feel very much at home!

There is more Scottish news on the main UK news than there is Welsh news too.
"First England, now what is happening in Scotland, now here is the weather forecast."

How many English people know that at Agincourt Scotland was on the other side?
We learnt about the strong Scottish/French alliance in our history lessons but I don't think history is a compulsory subject now. The Auld Alliance of 1295.
Mary Queen of Scots grew up in France - the Four Mary's
She was also Queen of France.

It's a pity if this is not all taught now.

The apostrophe was not mine.
Marys

Elegran

GrannyRose15 Alba is an old name for Scotland.

Alba is the current name for Scotland in Gaelic.

Theres an Alba station on the television.
My stepfather from Western Ross tunes into it regularly.
?
He’s 88y and likes to tell the tales from his village. Where the Highland cattle had crofter’s rights. His house overlooked Loch Carron. A most beautiful part of the world. I could live there but I’d miss our grandchildren too much.

I asked him this afternoon what he thought of the SNP. He wasn’t impressed. Said he thought too many people believed their nonsense and that their governance was pretty poor overall. He seemed sad but shrugged it off saying she’s (NS) not as popular as she thinks she is. I said ‘what about the polls?’. ‘Pah!’ was his response....

Callistemon - we have biligual signs here too, not so much in Glasgow. Also bars where the general conversation is not in English, even in Glasgow (the Park Bar in Argyle Street in the so-called "Teuchter Triangle", for example). But a traditional Welsh pub, language aside, is pretty much like a traditional English pub, while a traditional Scottish bar is a different animal.

I have fond memories of camping near Machynlleth about 30 years ago and going into a village pub where a party of young people were having an animated conversation in Welsh. Because I consider it polite to show willing in any area where English isn't the first language, I went up to the barman and said "Noswaith dda, cwrw os gwelwch yn dda". At this point the young people switched to English and welcomed me into their circle with my ~cwrw~. They gave me a great evening out.

we have family in LochCarron Urmstogran my OH' godparents moved there over 40 years ago .Sadly his godmother died in 2019 but his GF is still there .When he takes it into his head he wont answer his phone so I msg their gP who checks up on him for me .
As I said upthread ,a lot of the older generation are still unionists ,they were force fed unionism back in the day and believed all the nonsense they were told.
I t never occurred to them to question how if we were so stupid thenhow did Scots literally invented the modern world.If we could do that then running a country is a dawdle.Check the list of Scottish inventions ,innovations and discoveries,then theres our economists and writers all world renowned .That talent has continued until now ...think Dolly tha sheep..lol .

I'm sad that your SF feels like that ,people in his area more than most felt the wrath of the English during the clearances when whole communities were thrown off their land by the aristocracy ,when ships left Wester Ross for Nova Scotia
with families who would never return ...a bit like the famine time in Ireland a country denied a generation or more because of greed or an ill deserved allegiance to WM .

Of course now ships stop at Nova Scotia to see Scottish heritage and culture ecause they could take the people out but not their love of their country .

My view - The ‘Union’ does not work in the best interests of the people who live in the 4 countries apart from those who live in England.
The 4 differ in culture a good example is to watch footage, prior to pandemic, of business underway in Westminster and Hollywood and compare.
3 of the countries are treated as the colonies were, not as an equal and not with equity, and as many colonised countries have done, some in Scotland want to do the same and become Independent. Scotland was not subject to colonisation but none the less treated as such.
Many in Scotland have lost hope and faith that equality and equity is a possibility whilst remaining as part of the ‘Union’.
In general, men do not see sexism because they do not experience it so they have to learn about it. Westminster, regardless of which Party is in power, has not made any meaningful attempts to address this matter, they refuse to learn and that has taken us to where we are.

My partner and I stayed in a B&B near Lochcarron, in 1978. In those days much of Scotland, and the Western Highlands in particular, was firmly closed on Sundays and we were despairing of finding anywhere to stay, so we were very grateful for the elderly couple - an old blind shepherd and his wife, who ignored the local convention and kept their B&B sign up. They were lovely too. The old shepherd said something I will never forget: he said "I have the Gaelic, I'm no ashamed". That took me aback, the first time I realised that this man and others of his generation were taught that speaking the native language of the Highlands was something shameful, something to be discouraged.

These days there's a lot of demand for learning Gaelic, in the spirit of revived nationhood. Evening classes are popular and Glasgow's Gaelic-medium High School, Sgoil Ghàidlig Ghlaschu, is heavily oversubscribed. My MP Carol Monaghan sends her two girls there, as does one of my closest Glasgow friends. The results and top university admissions are among the best in Scotland.

I think a lot pof people dont know the Gaelic was spoke right into the central belt .it was certainly spoken in the area I live in just 20 miles from Glasgow .In my lifetime we've een coerced to speak "PROPER" English and not our native Scots tongue .Alway swith the warning that you must not speak slang as no one will undrestand you .Its NOT slang its Scots and thankfully theres a revival of that tooLadyHonoria .

My next door neighbours originate from Tiree ,their children speak gaelic and their GC go to gaelic school in Glasgow ,theres a bus picks up a lot of children from the area every morning and brings them home after school its a STATE school .It makes me smile to see our rights being restored .

The best gardening programme on TV is Beechgrove on BBC Scotland. 30 minutes of really good info. Not like Gardener’s World which is nothing without Monty. You can watch Beechgrove on catch up. All the presenters are naturals.

Sorry I have digressed but it is the most unpretentious informative programme and we love it.