Scottish independence, English me would like to understand

That was meant for "Casdon* ?

Alegrias1

The wink was to indicate it was lighthearted....

Bad idea, obviously.

Oh I know what that's like! Been there myself!

Casdon

paddyanne I have to call you out again. The Scots did NOT ‘literally invent the modern world’!

You have to acknowledge that they were great Imperialists though.

Mind you Nicola Sturgeon seems to be in a spot of bother right now over dates in her diary ...
Has she misled Parliament?

Sorry - the original comment had wound me up more than it should have done, I missed your wink!

Alegrias1

They certainly named everywhere!
Except for New South Wales

The wink was to indicate it was lighthearted....

Bad idea, obviously.

Yes, I’ve heard of the book, here’s the summary in case not everybody has:
‘How the Scots Invented the Modern World: The True Story of How Western Europe's Poorest Nation Created Our World & Everything in It (or The Scottish Enlightenment: The Scots invention of the Modern World) is a non-fiction book written by American historian Arthur Herman. The book examines the origins of the Scottish Enlightenment and what impact it had on the modern world. Herman focuses principally on individuals, presenting their biographies in the context of their individual fields and also in terms of the theme of Scottish contributions to the world.’
I’m not decrying the contribution Scots have made, as per my previous post to the last OTT statement about this, but the statement is plainly ridiculous in the context it was used. Many (most?) nations have made contributions to getting the world to where it is now (not that all contributions are things to be proud of). To me it just weakens any argument when people make over the top claims, why not just have a sensible and reasoned discussion without the hyperbole?

Da iawn LadyHonoriaDedlock
Mine's a Welsh wine please ?

Still learning.

Good point FarNorth.

paddyanne I have to call you out again. The Scots did NOT ‘literally invent the modern world’!

I t never occurred to them to question how if we were so stupid ...

Goodness paddyann my stepfather never denigrates his people. He is rightly proud of all of Scotland’s many achievements and takes pride in them. He is a clever man himself, speaks Gaelic too. As does his 95y old brother, born in the same village but who now lives in the Midlands. In his time as a young man he served as an officer in the Royal Navy during the war involved in the North Atlantic crossings with supplies. He has some tales to tell as I’m sure can be appreciated.

But as you say, my stepfather is a Unionist and as such isn’t impressed by the SNP’s record at all. To each his own.

At the last referendum for Scottish independence he wasn’t allowed to vote as, although he owned a house up there, he no longer lived in the village. Fair’s fair I suppose. Bit like Brexit really - ex-pats who had lived abroad for more than 15 years weren’t allowed a vote in that referendum. As these votes affect the people who actually live in the country I dare say it’s the right call.

UG, after Independence the Scottish people will be able to vote in any party.
They won't have to have the SNP forever and it may well cease to exist, as its main purpose will have been achieved.

The best gardening programme on TV is Beechgrove on BBC Scotland. 30 minutes of really good info. Not like Gardener’s World which is nothing without Monty. You can watch Beechgrove on catch up. All the presenters are naturals.

Sorry I have digressed but it is the most unpretentious informative programme and we love it.

I think a lot pof people dont know the Gaelic was spoke right into the central belt .it was certainly spoken in the area I live in just 20 miles from Glasgow .In my lifetime we've een coerced to speak "PROPER" English and not our native Scots tongue .Alway swith the warning that you must not speak slang as no one will undrestand you .Its NOT slang its Scots and thankfully theres a revival of that tooLadyHonoria .

My next door neighbours originate from Tiree ,their children speak gaelic and their GC go to gaelic school in Glasgow ,theres a bus picks up a lot of children from the area every morning and brings them home after school its a STATE school .It makes me smile to see our rights being restored .

My partner and I stayed in a B&B near Lochcarron, in 1978. In those days much of Scotland, and the Western Highlands in particular, was firmly closed on Sundays and we were despairing of finding anywhere to stay, so we were very grateful for the elderly couple - an old blind shepherd and his wife, who ignored the local convention and kept their B&B sign up. They were lovely too. The old shepherd said something I will never forget: he said "I have the Gaelic, I'm no ashamed". That took me aback, the first time I realised that this man and others of his generation were taught that speaking the native language of the Highlands was something shameful, something to be discouraged.

These days there's a lot of demand for learning Gaelic, in the spirit of revived nationhood. Evening classes are popular and Glasgow's Gaelic-medium High School, Sgoil Ghàidlig Ghlaschu, is heavily oversubscribed. My MP Carol Monaghan sends her two girls there, as does one of my closest Glasgow friends. The results and top university admissions are among the best in Scotland.

My view - The ‘Union’ does not work in the best interests of the people who live in the 4 countries apart from those who live in England.
The 4 differ in culture a good example is to watch footage, prior to pandemic, of business underway in Westminster and Hollywood and compare.
3 of the countries are treated as the colonies were, not as an equal and not with equity, and as many colonised countries have done, some in Scotland want to do the same and become Independent. Scotland was not subject to colonisation but none the less treated as such.
Many in Scotland have lost hope and faith that equality and equity is a possibility whilst remaining as part of the ‘Union’.
In general, men do not see sexism because they do not experience it so they have to learn about it. Westminster, regardless of which Party is in power, has not made any meaningful attempts to address this matter, they refuse to learn and that has taken us to where we are.

we have family in LochCarron Urmstogran my OH' godparents moved there over 40 years ago .Sadly his godmother died in 2019 but his GF is still there .When he takes it into his head he wont answer his phone so I msg their gP who checks up on him for me .
As I said upthread ,a lot of the older generation are still unionists ,they were force fed unionism back in the day and believed all the nonsense they were told.
I t never occurred to them to question how if we were so stupid thenhow did Scots literally invented the modern world.If we could do that then running a country is a dawdle.Check the list of Scottish inventions ,innovations and discoveries,then theres our economists and writers all world renowned .That talent has continued until now ...think Dolly tha sheep..lol .

I'm sad that your SF feels like that ,people in his area more than most felt the wrath of the English during the clearances when whole communities were thrown off their land by the aristocracy ,when ships left Wester Ross for Nova Scotia
with families who would never return ...a bit like the famine time in Ireland a country denied a generation or more because of greed or an ill deserved allegiance to WM .

Of course now ships stop at Nova Scotia to see Scottish heritage and culture ecause they could take the people out but not their love of their country .

Callistemon - we have biligual signs here too, not so much in Glasgow. Also bars where the general conversation is not in English, even in Glasgow (the Park Bar in Argyle Street in the so-called "Teuchter Triangle", for example). But a traditional Welsh pub, language aside, is pretty much like a traditional English pub, while a traditional Scottish bar is a different animal.

I have fond memories of camping near Machynlleth about 30 years ago and going into a village pub where a party of young people were having an animated conversation in Welsh. Because I consider it polite to show willing in any area where English isn't the first language, I went up to the barman and said "Noswaith dda, cwrw os gwelwch yn dda". At this point the young people switched to English and welcomed me into their circle with my ~cwrw~. They gave me a great evening out.

Theres an Alba station on the television.
My stepfather from Western Ross tunes into it regularly.
?
He’s 88y and likes to tell the tales from his village. Where the Highland cattle had crofter’s rights. His house overlooked Loch Carron. A most beautiful part of the world. I could live there but I’d miss our grandchildren too much.

I asked him this afternoon what he thought of the SNP. He wasn’t impressed. Said he thought too many people believed their nonsense and that their governance was pretty poor overall. He seemed sad but shrugged it off saying she’s (NS) not as popular as she thinks she is. I said ‘what about the polls?’. ‘Pah!’ was his response....

Elegran

GrannyRose15 Alba is an old name for Scotland.

Alba is the current name for Scotland in Gaelic.

The apostrophe was not mine.
Marys

which make you feel that this is distinctly a different country in the way that Wales isn't.
That bit did made me laugh, though.
At least all signs, all official documents, phone calls, notices etc are in English so no wonder you feel very much at home!

There is more Scottish news on the main UK news than there is Welsh news too.
"First England, now what is happening in Scotland, now here is the weather forecast."

How many English people know that at Agincourt Scotland was on the other side?
We learnt about the strong Scottish/French alliance in our history lessons but I don't think history is a compulsory subject now. The Auld Alliance of 1295.
Mary Queen of Scots grew up in France - the Four Mary's
She was also Queen of France.

It's a pity if this is not all taught now.

Kapitan

Lets not forget that the Act of Union came about because in 1707 Scotland was bankrupt. Maybe, if pushed too far, Boris will blow the dust off the dusty pages of the draft Alien Act.

The Alien Act?
How would that be at all relevant Kapitan?