Scottish independence, English me would like to understand

one huge change is enough for a while

Sometimes that might be a good thought - other times not.
For example, if the roof falls in - will I make the best of the new situation or will I take steps to change it?

Dustyhen2010
I hardly think the UK government will attempt to alter the amount of money allocated as that would swing the mood here more towards independence.

They are already reducing the amount allocated to the Scottish NHS because it is calculated as a proportion of the funds given to the English NHS, and those are being reduced.
Many people will never realise that that is happening and will simply blame the Scottish Government for shortcomings in the Scottish NHS.

I feel very sad Dusty that you dont realise the things we have are due to devolution and if WM decides to close Holyrood down as is being hinted at,then we lose all the stuff we've worked hard to get
.There will be NO free uni in a Scotland taken back into the UK without devolution to work for us.If WM doesn't give the rUK these benfits theres not a cats chance in hell of us having them .
Devolution was hard won and voted for by a large majority of Scots ,please dont throw it away by voting for a unionist party . Neither Starmer or Boris has a shred of respect for us That will desrtoy decades of work by people like me ,I've been campaigning for firstly Devolution and now Independence since 1967 .It breaks my heart to think it can be so easily lost because some folk dont understand what Westminster will do to destroy it .
I'm out .

I was MaizieD! Can’t win ‘em all eh? Good job I didn’t place my money where my mouth is.
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Callistemon

^That'll be like the 'quiet majority' that were going to vote Trump back into power last November, then?^

Are you likening those who wish to remain as part of the UK to Trump supporters then, MaizieD?

Don't be daft.

I was just remembering the last time on this forum that the 'quiet majority' was cited. It was by someone who was quite sure that the 'quiet majority' would swing it for Trump in November.

They were wrong...

FarNorth

DustyHen you really feel secure in Brexit Britain? I certainly don't.

The benefits you mention are due to the financial choices made by the Scottish Government.
That could all change at the whim of the UK government if it chooses to change how money is allocated to Scotland or, as seems quite likely, if it chooses to do away with the Scottish Government altogether.

I feel a lot less secure in Brexit Britain than before but one huge change is enough for a while. We need to see what that change will mean in the coming years.
I hardly think the UK government will attempt to alter the amount of money allocated as that would swing the mood here more towards independence.

If Scotland votes ‘yes’, Great Britain will become Little Britain.
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DustyHen you really feel secure in Brexit Britain? I certainly don't.

The benefits you mention are due to the financial choices made by the Scottish Government.
That could all change at the whim of the UK government if it chooses to change how money is allocated to Scotland or, as seems quite likely, if it chooses to do away with the Scottish Government altogether.

Alegrias1

I was feeling a bit guilty about always coming back with a quick response when posters put an anti-independence viewpoint. But then I realised that all the anti-independence viewpoints I'd read today were about how Scotland couldn't manage on our own and how difficult things would be for us if we left.

Would an anti-independence supporter like to tell us a good reason why we should stay that isn't negative? Serious question.

Having Prince Edward to live in Holyrood Palace doesn't count

I feel I have said positive things. I feel have listed all the plus points to living in our present system from my point of view. Our children have no university debts as tuition is free. If our elderly need personal care it is not means tested it is available for all up to 4x per day visits, no car park charges at hospitals etc etc. In a crisis we are in a larger nation and able to negotiate more effectively. I don't want to give these positives up. Our present system gives us security and certainty which would not be the case if we went down the route of independence. You just need to see how hard a Brexit divorce for around 40 years (I haven't checked the exact number) association has been to negotiate. It would be unimaginable to see how a spilt could be done without huge damage and cost. I would like a safe, secure life for my GC and feel we need to stay as we are to achieve this.

Sorry MaizieD you’re right I’d not read ALL the thread but my bit of news I was sharing had only been in the newspaper that particular morning & I felt it might be interesting.
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Alegrias your posts are a quiet but sensible persuasion for independence. I would feel saddened (? Lessened) to have Scotland leave the Union but I can completely understand the desire of many to do just that. Long term it won’t affect me (I dare say) and so I just say I wish you all well, whatever the outcome.

Splitting up 300 years of togetherness will take some sorting! Brexit will seem a piece of cake by comparison (especially as the pandemic takes precedence and who knows - that might be burying some of the Brexit messes under the carpet in the short term).

Where to begin with what currency to use. Sharing of debt and dividends. Will the royal family play any part? What about defence?

As regards a border, none should be necessary surely with today’s technology and ‘trusted trader’ agreements? Mind you I felt the same about NI and Eire but the EU weren’t budging and things have got messy, 5 weeks in.

In summary all I can say is ‘all the best’ and sincerely meant. I like Scotland and it’s people too much to wish ill fate, even if it does mean you’ll leave us. I think you will go. But is there really going to be a continued groundswell of support for doing so? I’m a bit doubtful.

That'll be like the 'quiet majority' that were going to vote Trump back into power last November, then?

Are you likening those who wish to remain as part of the UK to Trump supporters then, MaizieD?

But then I realised that all the anti-independence viewpoints I'd read today were about how Scotland couldn't manage on our own and how difficult things would be for us if we left.

I will have no say, Alegrias unless the unthinkable happened and we had to move to Scotland before a referendum, but I would prefer the Union to remain intact, understand the reasoning for leave with Brexit but, really, it matters not a jot to me.

I said there may well be
As the last referendum proved

If I said the moon was made of igneous rock and iron I expect you'd argue with me MaizieD and say it was made of green cheese.
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Every time, it's so predictable it's funny
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I think if the majority vote for it in Scotland it should happen. What is difficult, as has played out with the UK leaving the EU as well, is that it could well be a margin of decision that leaves a large minority disenfranchised. There’s no easy way forward when that happens, as is clear from countries all over the world.

I was feeling a bit guilty about always coming back with a quick response when posters put an anti-independence viewpoint. But then I realised that all the anti-independence viewpoints I'd read today were about how Scotland couldn't manage on our own and how difficult things would be for us if we left.

Would an anti-independence supporter like to tell us a good reason why we should stay that isn't negative? Serious question.

Having Prince Edward to live in Holyrood Palace doesn't count

^ there may well be a quiet majority in Scotland who do not want independence but their voices are not heard;^

That'll be like the 'quiet majority' that were going to vote Trump back into power last November, then?

Polling tells a different story and, despite people's scorn for it, generally tends to be correct. Because, properly done, it gets responses from all sections of the population. Including those who, it is claimed, have 'unheard voices'.

Of course they shout about it. Look at this thread!

And Baroness-to-be Davidson, Dougie Ross and Willie Rennie can't keep off the topic because they know that this is the only thing they have to offer the Scottish electorate. That they are not-SNP.

And all those things that we have that our neighbours don't have? Its because we choose to have them instead of some of the things that money are spent on down South. Although I still remember being told earlier on this thread that we're only good at spending money, not at making it

Sorry, I spelt your name wrong Dustyhen2010

Of course it does Dusty ,a life half lived is no life at all .We should be in control of our country devolution only gives a tiny amount of control.As you yourself have admitted we have lots of benefits that the other UK nations dont and those are entirely down to the Scottish governments running of the budget.Wehave a set budget that HAS TO BALANCE ,not for us the racking up of trillions of pound of debt ...sadly we are handed a bill for @10% of Englands debt .
Its coming up to 100 years since I reland gianed their freedom ,its well past time we joined the world as an Independent country.With no disrespect meant at all I find that the older generation are the ones who still think we couldn't manage our own country ,my FIL was one ,the younger generations who have grown up with the reconvened Scottish Parliament are ready to take the enxt step and embrace Independece .Iwould hope that the no's could do it for the next generation ,their children and grandchildren ,Surely they deserve a country run by them for them.Lets face it WM hasn't made such a great job of it for many decades

We live well here with may benefits our neighbours south of the border would love to have eg free university education, free personal care etc. The vocal force heard in the country is from those who want independence while there is a huge part of the population who keeps quiet and wants things to stay as they are. Look what happened at the last referendum.

Dusthen I said that earlier today - there may well be a quiet majority in Scotland who do not want independence but their voices are not heard; they do not shout loudly. Of course, they will be able to give their opinion - again - if there is another referendum.

I am English, living in Wales 30+ years (do have Welsh and Irish heritage). Sadly yes, the Welsh who voted for Brexit do feel disenfranchised! It has not improved things, if anything things have got worse. There are also several movements pushing for Welsh independence, but of course this is less likely to happen given Wales is a much smaller nation and has much less economic clout. Just really saddens me that so many people in Wales voted for Brexit thinking it would improve their lives....... the major problem is as usual, the lack of investment from Westminster and the 'south east of England' centric bias.

Susie42

If Scotland wish to break up the Union I feel that all four countries should be able to vote as to whether this should happen.

And should all of the EU countries have had a say in whether the UK left?

Susie why would all four nations have to give consent?The "union" is a treaty between Scotland and England ..only those two signed the treaty .The other nations were aquired in different ways .It was a treaty ,not a deed of ownership .therefore we ,in international law are able to leave as and when we wish .

paddyanne

it absolutely astounds me that all these folk who dont live ,work or contribute in Scotland know whats best for us who do.
Therein lives the problem ENGLAND thinks it OWNS Scotland.I'm sorry to have to inform you that isnt the case NONE of your opinions are valid in the arguement ,,its for the SCOTTISH population to decide and no one else .Not Bojo or Lizzie or any other person outside of Scotland.

In all your posts you do make it sound as if everyone in Scotland wants independence and that in someway we are enslaved! We live well here with may benefits our neighbours south of the border would love to have eg free university education, free personal care etc. The vocal force heard in the country is from those who want independence while there is a huge part of the population who keeps quiet and wants things to stay as they are. Look what happened at the last referendum. So many badges and boards up saying Vote for Independence but look at the outcome. I understand your passion for your country and that is natural but it doesn't need to translate into independence.

Urmstongran

The London School of Economics forecast a £2,800 hit post Brexit to every Scottish person if they vote for independence in a referendum. It might be Project Fear. We had plenty of that doom & gloom from eminent economic experts during the Brexit referendum!

Bit late to the party there, Ug (do you not read the thread before posting?) We covered that a few days ago.

LSE figures are nonsense, many have no data to be based on because the records of what they're trying to measure just aren't, and never have been, kept.

Whereas, I'm afraid that economic forecasts for post Brexit are absolutely sound. Just a very few maverick economists dissenting.