Scottish independence, English me would like to understand

The London School of Economics forecast a £2,800 hit post Brexit to every Scottish person if they vote for independence in a referendum. It might be Project Fear. We had plenty of that doom & gloom from eminent economic experts during the Brexit referendum!

Susie42

If Scotland wish to break up the Union I feel that all four countries should be able to vote as to whether this should happen.

Scotland don't want to break up the union, we just want to leave it. Wales, Northern Ireland and England will still be in Union.

Same as the EU is even though the UK decided to leave.

If Scotland voted to be an independent country and weren't allowed to leave the Union because of an English vote to the contrary, that's a bit unfair, I'd say.

Sorry, posted twice.

Maybe it needed saying twice

Gwenisgreat1

I am British!! I was born in England, my parents were Welsh and brought in in Scotland!! Mr great Uncle was a founcer member of Plaid Cymru!! 50 years ago I was working in Glasgow and felt Scotland was definitely the downtrodden dog of Great Britain. I even joined the SNP briefly and made my views known!! Shortly after I moved to London and got my teeth into a different way of living. I suppose it took me a good 20 later to grow up and realise Scotland did not have the resources any more than Wales did. I lived again in Glasgow (an amazing city) and Aberdeen and am back down in England (Yorkshire)
Again I don't think Scotland can go it alone and hope they don't win. I hve a friend living there who has never lived anywhere else, she threatens to leave if Scotland gets its independence!!

Well there we have it. Gwen “grew up” when she went down to London. Maybe thinks we all need to move down to London for an education in how to live. Thinks we don’t have the resources. Hopes we don’t win. If we win its because that's what we'll have voted for.
If your friend was to leave Gwen, that’s a shame, but there are plenty who’d want to come here and live in an independent Scotland and we’ll welcome them.
I don’t know if we subsidise WM or not, and I don’t care. Does nobody think how insulting they are when they go on about how we can’t support ourselves? Are we less able than any other country of 5 million or less? Denmark? Iceland? Malta? Are we stupider than the inhabitants of these countries? Give us a break.
The rUK took us out of the EU and now we’re being told because of the implications of that, we DEFINITELY can’t leave the Union. Just listen to it.
We’re not too wee, too poor nor too stupid and if you keep telling us we are, well that’s only going to have one outcome.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

If Scotland wish to break up the Union I feel that all four countries should be able to vote as to whether this should happen.

Ah the cunning plan from the Downing Street bunker complex is to send Edward Windsor complete with household across the Rio Tweed presumably to live in Holyrood Palace and thus saving the union.

I must say, when DH read that out to me this morning I spilt my coffee I was laughing so much!

You might like our Sophie, though, she's lovely!

Interesting paddyanne. Can you direct me to that information. I didn’t know, and the only information I can find is about statistics comparing expenditure in Scotland compared with the UK, which as far as I know, includes England Ireland Scotland and Wales, so isn’t really helpful.

it absolutely astounds me that all these folk who dont live ,work or contribute in Scotland know whats best for us who do.
Therein lives the problem ENGLAND thinks it OWNS Scotland.I'm sorry to have to inform you that isnt the case NONE of your opinions are valid in the arguement ,,its for the SCOTTISH population to decide and no one else .Not Bojo or Lizzie or any other person outside of Scotland.

sorry Gwen you couldn't be more wrong ,Scotland subsidises the rUK by Billions of pounds every year .You've been listening to too uch WM propoganda if you think otherwise.
Anyway its all off the Great Britsish government has found a way to keep us in our place.
Ah the cunning plan from the Downing Street bunker complex is to send Edward Windsor complete with household across the Rio Tweed presumably to live in Holyrood Palace and thus saving the union.
Well if nothing else it does show that Johnson is working to a script, it may well be a Blackadder script but definitely a script!!
That should do the trick !!

I am British!! I was born in England, my parents were Welsh and brought in in Scotland!! Mr great Uncle was a founcer member of Plaid Cymru!! 50 years ago I was working in Glasgow and felt Scotland was definitely the downtrodden dog of Great Britain. I even joined the SNP briefly and made my views known!! Shortly after I moved to London and got my teeth into a different way of living. I suppose it took me a good 20 later to grow up and realise Scotland did not have the resources any more than Wales did. I lived again in Glasgow (an amazing city) and Aberdeen and am back down in England (Yorkshire)
Again I don't think Scotland can go it alone and hope they don't win. I hve a friend living there who has never lived anywhere else, she threatens to leave if Scotland gets its independence!!

and think EU rule is going to be better

The EU doesn't rule member states.

Romania and Bulgaria did indeed join in 2007 but are treated differently they are not Schengen nor do they use the Euro and dont get the full benefits that say France or Italy do.

There is no obligation for member states to do either of these things. They have to be 'working towards' using the euro.. Sweden has been doing this for decades.. and Schengen is a matter of choice.

(Not using the euro is highly beneficial. If it becomes independent and joins the EU Scotland must not, under any circumstances, join the euro. They have to create their own currency)

How are Romania and Bulgaria treated differently from France or Italy? Not goady, just curious...

I'm sure that the English, who are so dismissive of problems arising from their beloved Brexit and don't seem to mind any border inconveniences, will be fine with a Scottish/EU border. They'll be used to dealing with the 'nonexistent' but mighty problematic NI/EU border by then...

Romania and Bulgaria did indeed join in 2007 but are treated differently they are not Schengen nor do they use the Euro and dont get the full benefits that say France or Italy do.

I agree Scotland should get self determination, my concerns are the same as my Brexit concerns, “would leaving benefit the us”. I voted remain, so far there has been a lot of upheaval and still I don’t see how we are going to gain.

So it is with Scotland, some want to be rid of English rule and think EU rule is going to be better, even though there are no defined gains.

I'm refuting the assertion that the only land borders the EU have is with "Eastern Bloc" countries. There are several other land borders which are made to work because people want to make it happen. So when it is said that a hard border would have to exist between Scotland and England, that's because England would want to have it that way and I don't see why Scotland shouldn't be allowed self determination if just because rUK want to go it alone.

Bulgaria and Romania have been EU members since 2007 - 14 years. They're not in transition.

Turkey has a hard border, they want to join but the EU has not yet agreed, Bulgaria and Romania are in transition to join EU, every other state is in the EEA, Serbia I’m not sure about.

Fair comment.

Turkey and Bulgaria? Turkey and Greece?
Switzerland and nearly everybody else?
Gibraltar and Spain?

The idea that Scotland should not do what it wants because of English exceptionalism is a non starter for me.

There is now a full customs border with NI and Eire.

Yes. But Norway is in the EEA and has an agreement with the EU, as does all the other EEA states
UK is not in the EEA.

Sweden and Norway.

No hard border. No full customs.

NI and Eire, even

MaizieD

^In any case there is no prospect of membership if the rest of UK is outside.^

What makes you think that, Katie? The EU has always said that they'd be happy to accept Scotland as a member.

Why shouldn't they get regional aid? Doesn't it go on need? Not on what has been given in the past...

Because if the rest of the UK is outside the EU there would have to be a hard border with full customs and I really don’t think that is in Scotlands interests.
The only land borders the EU has are with Russia and the other Eastern block countries, that sort of isolation is going to hurt, of course emotion may well rule the day. If I were a Scot I would think twice before voting for independence in those circumstances.

It is always better to find the primary source (in this case www.scotcourts.gov.uk/docs/default-source/cos-general-docs/pdf-docs-for-opinions/2021csoh016.pdf?sfvrsn=0 ) than to rely on a media report.

You are correct, Alegrias It was Keating's action in wanting a ruling on whether another referendum could be sought that was "‘hypothetical, academic and premature’."

Her exact words - "The pursuer failed the sufficient interest test. He was a busybody. The 1998Act left it to the Scottish Parliament to determine its own policy goals and other considerations relevant to the exercise of its powers. The pursuer was not directly affected by the subject matter of the action, because the action was about whether a body of which he was not a member had a power that itwas not proposing to use. For similar reasons, he did not represent anyone who was directly affected."

"Grannyrose I see good old colonialism is alive and well in your mind."

That's a bit rich, paddyanne, considering the fundamental and enthusiastic role played by generations of our fellow Scots (including several of my ancestors) in founding, administering, policing and defending British colonies around the world. Indeed, was it not was the failure of the attempt to establish a Scottish colony in Central America (the Darien Scheme) which helped precipitate the 1707 Union of the Parliaments?

Wishful thinking UG. Read it again.