The fear women live with

Oldwoman70

Why is the onus always put on women, don't dress in a particular way, don't drink, take taxis, stay in groups, don't walk alone at night.

I accept we are all responsible for our own safety but it seems if a woman is attacked there is always the presumption that she may be partly to blame if she didn't follow this advice

Taking taxis isn’t necessarily safe is it!?

Why is the onus always put on women, don't dress in a particular way, don't drink, take taxis, stay in groups, don't walk alone at night.

I accept we are all responsible for our own safety but it seems if a woman is attacked there is always the presumption that she may be partly to blame if she didn't follow this advice

It is rare though. Millions of people live in London and most are safe. Having said that, there's always a risk. I'm quite aware of surroundings when I am in isolated spots with the dog. I doubt many men out with their dogs have similar feelings. Having said that I know of a man in a rural wood was attacked by a complete stranger. Think that I've talked myself into a circle. Everything is a calculated risk.

I remember having a lecture from Suzy Lamplugh’s mother at work about the danger from women’s lived experiences.

It seems to me that nothing has changed.

Suzy Lamplugh disappeared in 1986 after arranging to meet a man for a house viewing ( she was an estate agent)
This shone a very bright light on women and lone working, and that has continued, becoming part of H &S risk assessment.
I was given an attack alarm by the Suzy Lamplugh Trust, and for the first time my employer began to think about people working alone.
Later we all had mobile phones of course, but attack alarms are still being given out for free.
I remember thinking that the alarm needed to be attached to me in some way as the attacker probably wouldn't let me get to my handbag.

I wish they'd stop saying this is rare---it isn't ! Doesn't Cressida Dick ever read the papers ?

I am so sorry that happened to you Missfood

Foxie48 - when my children were young adults, I was more anxious when the "boys" were out after dark than the "girls".

As I have long been aware, as a young man you are much more likely to be assaulted by a stranger.

Whilst in a hospital bed I was a attacked, a man held a knife at my throat and told me he would kill me and my husband and children.

It was a dreadful experience that left me with PTSD, although I didn’t realise at the time.

I am very aware now of my surroundings, I hate anyone walking behind me, I will always look for exits in crowded places.
I feel as though I have a 6th sense.

When in Strasbourg a couple of years ago at the Xmas markets, I was very uncomfortable and begged my husband to leave the narrow streets of the old town and head away.
There was a large Police presence and I sensed danger.
The following day on that very street a terrorist

It is shocking to look at the level of death, violence, rape, harassment, groping, bullying and casual sexism that women live with every day of their lives.

At a personal level I can give quite a few examples from being groped by a man as I walked down the street and he grabbed my breasts which hurt badly. To instances of exposure by weird men to work place sexism and harassment. I dealt with them in a reasonable manner, but IT SHOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED.

Do people think that the number of rapes and murders would decrease if women didnt walk late at night etc, sorry it's just nonsense. If a person is going to murder or sexually assault they will do it, just at another time in another place. Pretending you can avoid these risks is not helpful.

Maggiemaybe

^Yes men are subject to violence, but can you name a man that this happened to? Men suffer violence but largely for entirely different reasons, associated with their lifestyle etc.^

The figures show that men are far more likely to be victims of violence outside the home than women. I could name several known to me personally. One who died. Associated with their lifestyle only in that they went out in the evening and were in the wrong place at the wrong time. In one case, helped a drunk and distressed young woman to her front door to be put in intensive care for his pains by her boyfriend on arrival.

I shall worry as much about my grandsons when they’re older than I would about any granddaughters.

I take your point but don’t underestimate the level of violence to women.

7 women and 1 small girl have died in the past few days - presumably at the hands of men.

How many men have died over the same period and at the hands of women?

The latest statistics I can find are from 2018.
That year, 149 women killed by 147 different men in the UK.

91 of these women (61%) were killed by their current or former partner.

9 women (6%) were killed by a stranger or where there was no known relationship between them.

So actual only 6/100 were committed by people not already known to them.

The majority were men they were/had been in a relationship with.

We really should put this in context in terms of murder... Rape or assault may be different of course. I haven't looked that up, but last time I did, the statistics were similar.

I totally agree with this, I worry about my grandsons as much as my grand daughter.

When police officers stopped going on a designated beat. Also police stations closed down it doesn’t give a sense of confidence when there is no deterrent.

The death of this young woman is dreadful but there will always be bad people out there and everything we do carries an element of risk. The bathroom is a pretty dangerous place and the car even more so but it doesn't stop us showering or driving. Do your own risk analysis and live with the risk you are prepared to take. I walk miles on my own with the dog and have no idea who I might meet but I don't give it a second thought. I would walk at night in a lit up area but I wouldn't walk through an unlit park. You can't lock men up at night and there will always be predators, there always has been, I just try to avoid situations where I know I will feel vulnerable.

Yes men are subject to violence, but can you name a man that this happened to? Men suffer violence but largely for entirely different reasons, associated with their lifestyle etc.

The figures show that men are far more likely to be victims of violence outside the home than women. I could name several known to me personally. One who died. Associated with their lifestyle only in that they went out in the evening and were in the wrong place at the wrong time. In one case, helped a drunk and distressed young woman to her front door to be put in intensive care for his pains by her boyfriend on arrival.

I shall worry as much about my grandsons when they’re older than I would about any granddaughters.

We can’t possibly know why Sarah’s death happened.

However, I do wonder how many women who have suffered rape, or violence simply were lucky?

Do the men set out to kill or just inflict sexual violence and it all goes wrong? Yes, some kill for a perverted reason, but most don’t seem to set out to kill

If that is the case then giving the level of rape and violence of which there must be thousands a year, what on earth can be done?

It is like a mini-pandemic for which there is seemingly no cure.

When my DM arrived in London in 1936 to take up her university place, she marvelled that she could walk alone in the streets without fear. She was brought up in Burma where, unless you were a native, you were not safe and couldn't go out alone.
When did things change? When did we all become so frightened?

We are the weaker sex and vulnerable to violence in the street and in the home, there are men and some women that will take advantage of that. Nothing we say now or have ever said will change that, violence seems to get worse not better despite many campaigns.

All we can do is protect ourselves I wouldn’t dream of walking unaccompanied at night, or indeed some areas in daylight. I’ve got tremendous sympathy with this girls family and would like the streets to be safer, but they won’t,

It seems as though this abduction took place sometime between nine and ten o'clock at night, which is not a late night walk, and in a busy area. I thought this poor woman had taken a short cut across Clapham common, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
When I went out at night, pre-covid, I would drive even short distances because I did think as I got older I might trip and fall and no one would know, also I read an account of a woman in her sixties being raped, beaten and strangled as she walked a very short distance home from meeting friends in her local pub at about 10.30pm, which was what I used to do.
It is wrong that it is like this but we have to take action to protect ourselves first, which is initially avoiding situations where we are vulnerable. Women-only waiting rooms and carriages are loudly decried by feminists, but I think there is a need for measures like this. I remember as Deputy Head being left to lock up the school after meetings, and realising I was completely alone and in pitch dark once the doors were locked; repeated requests for outdoor lights were ignored as being too expensive. When installed in the new building the head programmed them to go off at 9pm, until a woman tripped over a kerb on her way to the car park after an evening class and her husband threatened to sue the school unless they were left on.

bikergran

The fact it could possibly be the Policeman will throw away our trust in the force.

Did the Shipman and Allitt cases throw away our trust in doctors and nurses?

It's a nasty reminder that awful things can happen but would it make anyone feel safer if women all stayed indoors and never walked without a chaperone?
I think it would make for more fear.

I have just noticed that the accused’s photo is front page of The Times along with his name this morning.

I am very uncomfortable with this, especially as he hasn’t been charged yet (to my knowledge)

bikergran

The fact it could possibly be the Policeman will throw away our trust in the force.

I don’t really think this will happen ( if it is him) .