The fear women live with

Grammareto interesting that your DM was brought up in Burma, my late MiL was too

So sad to finally hear that the remains were Sarah Everard by all accounts a lovely young woman with her life in front of her. Hearing that the alleged person had already been reported for two counts of indecent exposure close to where she went missing is also very alarming.
I personally feel as a woman we are somewhat vulnerable when out and about and that goes for even sometimes in daylight. I find that these days in winter particularly when it gets dark early I am not as comfortable taking my dog out
after 7.30 pm. Perhaps about 3 years ago as long as I kept to street lighting I felt safe but not any more.
Several times when walking the dog I have had men try to talk to me in daylight hours usually I just ignore them and keep walking. The worst one I had was someone in a car and he was hooting his horn at me then he stopped the car and asked me if I would like to spend half an hour with him.
That made me very angry and in no uncertain terms l told him to F--K O-f . He just laughed and asked me if I was playing hard to get, luckily for me I spotted a brick on the grass and went to pick it up at that he just drove away. Nothing like that has happened to me for about two years now but even so I am a GM and what sort of men are these to behave like that to an older woman.
I did not even call the police as they would probably not have even come out to see me.

EllanVannin

Remember when police used to take their jackets off to these characters ? I do. This was the 60's. Police were more on foot then so were more aware and they were never far away if you needed them because sub-stations were dotted around and you always felt safe.

Oh the good old 60s - no police corruption, no fitting up of the innocent, no racism, no sexism. Please let’s keep a sense of proportion about the police service and the past.

Remember when police used to take their jackets off to these characters ? I do. This was the 60's. Police were more on foot then so were more aware and they were never far away if you needed them because sub-stations were dotted around and you always felt safe.

Groped ( obviously )

Flashed, grouped by men twice on public transport, and all before I was 17.

A good hiding would sort these monsters out, prison doesn't !

Until yesterday I had no idea why women changed into flats or trainers after a night out. I thought it was a comfort thing after a hard nights dancing. I'm kinda glad I didn't know. It's SO sad.

My GD has told her mum that she has been subjected along with her friends to suggestive remarks made by much older men.

They are 15 year olds and find it very uncomfortable. It is disgusting for anyone but worse when they are still children.

These excuses for men need to see how pathetic they are.

Blinko

The question is, surely, what's to be done about it?

And why should we as women need to be careful what we wear and where we go at certain hours of the day or night, so as not to become the target of these neanderthals?

As to ‘what’s to be done about it’ the only thing that I can think of are social lessons given to secondary school teenage boys and girls ( just boys really, but girls will be in the class too and can say how they feel about it.)
This would never deter the types that murder of course, but for the rest would make them aware of what women often have to put up with, and maybe deter sexual ‘banter’ and very inappropriate chat or behaviour.

As for your second question, the answer is pretty obvious.

I know it's irrelevant, you have just reminded me that we had to watched to our cars or onto the works bus when I worked on a motorway services too as there had been a murder some years before. This was 20 odd years ago though

JaneJudge

People keep making reference to the time but loads of women in low paid work (for example carers) will have to walk home after their shift at 9/10pm or later. I used to be a shift manager at a shop too so would lock up sometimes quite late at night and walk home. We were advised to walk in pairs and to always take a different route incase we had been followed before.

Even if the time should be considered relevant ( and that’s a big if) you’re absolutely right about the number of women who have to be out later. I remember when I was teaching evening classes - before the class, I used to go and move my car ( when spaces became available) so it was both under a light snd as near as possible to the door I came out of. I remember one term when there had been reports of someone hanging around in the evenings and security escorted us out . I think a pp mentioned her dd a nurse who had a similar problem. Posters who think women out at night have all chosen so to be must have led very sheltered lives. But anyway, even if they’ve chosen to be out, it’s irrelevant

People keep making reference to the time but loads of women in low paid work (for example carers) will have to walk home after their shift at 9/10pm or later. I used to be a shift manager at a shop too so would lock up sometimes quite late at night and walk home. We were advised to walk in pairs and to always take a different route incase we had been followed before.

Katie59

A significant minority of young men have a disgusting attitude to women and treat their girlfriends very badly. At the Rugby Club I overheard a group of them discussing girls, apparently one of them had dated a “good looking girl” and had to pay a forfeit.
It really is bad and getting worse, young is up to 30 these days, when they should know better.

....they get these attitudes from their family and those the mix with.

It’s not just younger people.

It’s people saying “oh that’s just how older generations talk” it’s men in pubs denigrating their wives.

It’s women saying that some young women are claiming harassment when it's something so simple So that it gets swept away.

It’s women saying they are fearful for the men in their lives in case a woman might take something the wrong way.

It’s the acceptance of rape culture in our world.

We teach women to be careful instead of teaching men not to rape. “Because, well, a man will do what he wants, won’t he”

Iam64

Summer love even on gransnet, it’s a mans world

Or we could feel that especially on gransnet, excuses are made for men and criticisms levelled at women and girls.

It’s really fascinating isn’t it.

And often times, those of us who dare to call it out, are told we can’t take a joke, Or that we must learn to lighten up, followed by many pithy jokes

Just a reminder of what awfully nice young men no doubt from awfully nice homes at a top university were doing. Less than two years ago.
www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/uni-freshers-compete-sex-poorest-22652484

Still maybe the poor girls shouldn’t have gone to university

Alegrias1
“It may be rare, but we think about it and plan for it all the time.”
That’s right Alegrias even us older ones and not wearing short skirts!

A significant minority of young men have a disgusting attitude to women and treat their girlfriends very badly. At the Rugby Club I overheard a group of them discussing girls, apparently one of them had dated a “good looking girl” and had to pay a forfeit.
It really is bad and getting worse, young is up to 30 these days, when they should know better.

Women going to work? Oh ok Universal Credit it is then.

Silly silly women

BlueSky

Not everybody, women or men, can choose not to go out at night.

And girls going to school being flashed and cat called? Home schooling it is then.

Not everybody, women or men, can choose not to go out at night.

maybe the country should get some decent street lights , the ones we have are very high off the ground and light up practically nothing .and maybe community poilce could patrol areas up till 11pm ...i actually wouldnt go out after 9pm anyway .not even to my local shops .

Alegrias1

DH and I were discussing this last night, and we talked about just how rare it was that women actually get attacked in the street by men they don't know. Which is true of course.

But I told him that I never wear shoes that I can't run in, and that when I'm out alone at night I always carry my keys in my hand with one key poking through my fingers. We've been married nearly 40 years and he didn't know.

It may be rare, but we think about it and plan for it ^all the time.^

I think the conversations with the men in our lives should include ( if they don’t know already) the flashing , the cat calls, the groping, the rubbing up against in crowded places, the leers so many females experience from being little girls. The battle we had to get upskirting treated seriously and not just as a prank.

DH and I were discussing this last night, and we talked about just how rare it was that women actually get attacked in the street by men they don't know. Which is true of course.

But I told him that I never wear shoes that I can't run in, and that when I'm out alone at night I always carry my keys in my hand with one key poking through my fingers. We've been married nearly 40 years and he didn't know.

It may be rare, but we think about it and plan for it all the time.

The question is, surely, what's to be done about it?

And why should we as women need to be careful what we wear and where we go at certain hours of the day or night, so as not to become the target of these neanderthals?