The fear women live with

Blinko

^I wonder quite how small the pool is of men who abuse women - there are plenty of men in pubs doing exactly that when they discuss their wives in such a fashion.^

Some men seem unable to avoid showing off to their mates and thus behaving like pack animals. I wonder how much antisocial and sexist behaviour is down to a juvenile streak in some men. Unfortunately not an insignificant minority, it seems.

And enabled and facilitated by many others.

I wonder quite how small the pool is of men who abuse women - there are plenty of men in pubs doing exactly that when they discuss their wives in such a fashion.

Some men seem unable to avoid showing off to their mates and thus behaving like pack animals. I wonder how much antisocial and sexist behaviour is down to a juvenile streak in some men. Unfortunately not an insignificant minority, it seems.

Oldwoman70

Agreed vampirequeen the person who tackled them was my husband who told them he may not have had the benefit of a university education but he knew that wasn't the way to talk about any woman, never mind their wives.

Wow - you married a good ‘un

Agreed vampirequeen the person who tackled them was my husband who told them he may not have had the benefit of a university education but he knew that wasn't the way to talk about any woman, never mind their wives.

Oldwoman70

A group of regulars in my local pub, who would be described as well educated, pleasant men, were overheard discussing the attributes of their wives, including their performance in bed! When tackled about it they said it was "just a bit of fun". This is the excuse used by many men who harass women and is a sign of the ingrained attitude of a lot of men towards women.

I’d tell their wives. And yes I agree - the just a bit of fun excuse masks ingrained attitudes that are linked with a whole raft of issues that explain the way females are routinely treated in our society. It’s not just about murder - if anyone had listened to the various phone in yesterday they would have heard account after account of women’s lives marred/ ruined by sexual abuse/ harassment etc which went often unreported but if reported ignored, not taken seriously or the woman blamed ( even when they were little girls at the time). I wonder quite how small the pool is of men who abuse women - there are plenty of men in pubs doing exactly that when they discuss their wives in such a fashion.

Those men were being disrespectful to their wives and it shows that they hold them in little regard.

A group of regulars in my local pub, who would be described as well educated, pleasant men, were overheard discussing the attributes of their wives, including their performance in bed! When tackled about it they said it was "just a bit of fun". This is the excuse used by many men who harass women and is a sign of the ingrained attitude of a lot of men towards women.

Yesterday some silly but unpleasant posts appeared on here, and were removed by GNHQ after being reported.
It would be a good idea if the details of the posters, who must have joined Gransnet specifically to cause upset to a predominantly female audience, were notified that their details would automatically be passed on to police; so much investigation is now carried out online.
Harassment generally starts at a low level, 'for a joke'.

I know three men who have suffered violence. One was beaten and even stabbed on a regular basis for over 30 years by his wife. He was too ashamed to tell anyone. One was my ex who was hit over the head with a piece of wood as he left a pub. The last words he heard before he passed out were, "Sorry mate. We thought you were someone else". The last on was a friend's son who was on a night out. He'd not argued with anyone and was just walking along the street to get a taxi when he was set upon and they beat him so badly that they broke his jaw.

I also know several woman who have been harassed and one, who was raped. It left them traumatised for a long time. However I think that some young women are claiming harassment when it's something so simple (maybe not the right choice of word) that it undermines the severity of the suffering of those who are/have been living in fear or suffering great trauma. One young lady said that she was harassed because when she was running a man on a bicycle rode passed her and, although he didn't say anything, he looked at her. I cycle and I look at joggers of both genders wondering why the hell do they run when walking is better for their joints. Does that make me guilty of sexual harassment?

There are bad people out there and it doesn't matter where you are or what you wear if that person is determined to sexually attack someone then they will. It doesn't matter if the woman is wearing a bikini or a nun's habit. It's nothing to do with sex and everything to do with power. The same goes for violence against men. Some people just want to feel the power of being able to hurt/control someone else.

We shouldn't be making it out as if all men are potential abusers because they're not. Most men are kind, considerate and caring people. Just as most women are kind, considerate and caring people. All people regardless of gender need to be aware but to lay it on men by suggesting curfews etc is unfair and discriminatory. Would you want your DH, DS, DGS to be subject to a curfew?

It’s not only men I know a few women who are racist too, it’s not just that, there are certain stereotypes that act differently. Bikers, in a group can be very intimidating or groups of youths of any race, individually most are not a concern but together they are.
This does influence our altitudes.

I hate to say it, but I have a feeling that the sort of men who do these things may well change their ‘official’, public attitude, but will carry on much as they feel like where strangers are concerned.

It’s a bit like racism, IMO. We had a couple of friends (both male and no longer with us) who occasionally let slip that they were still racist underneath, but the chill non-response they got from whatever remark they’d made, put the lid on it. It was as if they’d put out a ‘feeler’.
However, if they’d been with more like-minded people....

That's the problem of telling women where and when to walk. There will always be someone who is out at night. What you really mean when you say that is I want this to happen to another woman.

foxie48

I totally agree with this, I worry about my grandsons as much as my grand daughter.

Agree Foxie and about my DH or myself being out at night. It has always been like this. We could be assaulted for our bag/phone whatever, tragically men can be assaulted for the ‘fun of it’ by other men. Can’t see a solution if you need to be out at night on your own for whatever reason.

Springishere
Shame on you that the issue of distancing came to mind when hearing of this poor woman’s death ?
It hadn’t entered my mind until I read your post.

I think the reason women are at more risk of violence from people they know is because they are careful outside their homes. Therefore, the people who actually DO attack them are generally people they know. If women were not so careful, constantly, there would be far more cases of violence by those they don't know.

I wasn't aware anyone was doing that on here vegansrock . I haven't seen blame attached to women nor should it be of course. All men should not be held to account for the actions of a few. I do think men have a role in raising awareness amongst themselves of the effects of some behaviours.

Summer love even on gransnet, it’s a mans world

Or we could feel that especially on gransnet, excuses are made for men and criticisms levelled at women and girls.

I wonder if all those on here who blame the women and defend the men say the same things to their young teenage or younger granddaughters- don’t worry girls if men grope you or leer at you when you’re going to school, don’t worry if the boys in your class look up your skirt or ping your bra straps it’s all good fun. Let’s hope younger women stand up to these attitudes.

When we were young there were not so many cars around. These days everyone has one so you get families with young sons who have a car each. They can assault women and then quickly drive away and/ or drag the woman into the car. Most of the assaults here seem to involve males pulling up in their car rather than just following the females on foot. Just too easy to make a quick getaway. My granddaughter is a nurse who often does night shifts and it has got so bad they started escorting them to their cars. She tells me if they want an escort they have to hang around after their shift and wait so of course they go it alone to the car park where the creeps wait for them. What a world.

vegansrock

It’s sad that people blame the victims- she shouldn’t have been walking etc, since when was walking home at 9 pm a capital,
offence? Women have a curfew. and many in here seem to accept that. Let’s hope women speak up about the abuse they suffer - even girls in their school uniforms are catcalled, propositioned, groped etc. Men who expose themselves, try to force women to talk to them or worse. We’ve all been there and should speak out.

Have you forgotten the cat calling thread, where those of us who objected, were called to lighten up? Take a compliment? Make the poor men feel good?

Pretty sure the word frigid was used. Certainly we were told to get more confidence to learn to enjoy it!

Even on “grans”net it’s a mans world

springishere

Two things concern me here. One is the publication of the name and face of the policeman accused, before he has been charged. I thought this was illegal. The other is that Sarah was reportedly "visiting friends". How could she do this? Was she in their bubble? I have not been able to visit friends for over a year.

...that’s your takeaway?

I wondered why, when he was at uni, my son said the men always got into a taxi before the girls and he explained to me it was for safety. It would never have crossed my mind the need to do that.

Men are subject to more violence than women - but it is, in almost all cases, violence perpetrated by other men. So, with a few exceptions, men are the common denominator.

I'm fairly sure most women are wary when they are walking alone at night, but sometimes there is no alternative other than to stay at home or to order an expensive taxi - and even taking a taxi doesn't guarantee safety - look at John Warboys. Anyway, why is it that a woman's actions are so often the focus of so much coverage on issues such as this? It is the abberant behaviour of men which needs to be the focus.

I think women should stick together on this and not say "nothing will ever change, so it's up to women to restrict what they do". It is up to parents and schools to teach their children that boys and girls should treat each other kindly and courteously and that it is certainly not manly to speak to, or of, girls or women in a demeaning way or to use their greater strength to bully and violate them.

It’s even more dangerous for girls to go jogging since the pandemic started because there are far fewer people around. We’ve had several scary incidences round our way over the past few months.

It’s sad that people blame the victims- she shouldn’t have been walking etc, since when was walking home at 9 pm a capital,
offence? Women have a curfew. and many in here seem to accept that. Let’s hope women speak up about the abuse they suffer - even girls in their school uniforms are catcalled, propositioned, groped etc. Men who expose themselves, try to force women to talk to them or worse. We’ve all been there and should speak out.