The fear women live with

Why do they keep referring to her remains and not her body it chills me to the bone if it means what I think it means It’s just to difficult to imaging
This particular policeman has another separate charge of indecent exposure apart from this case so sounds like a man who should not have been in the police force at all
It has always been unsafe for woman to be out alone at night from when I was a kid it’s not something that’s just happened it needs addressing now it should have been addressed years ago Yes young men can be attack mainly by other young men but that’s really not what this thread is about it’s about how we shouldn’t have to live in fear ever from young to old

The last couple of threads have mentioned re-educating men. Clearly there are men who treat women very badly but I feel saddened when the male sex generally are being held responsible for unacceptable and deplorable behaviour by a minority. There are actually some good, caring men in this World. I’ve made my point now and that’s all I wanted to say. But I’m going now and as I’m a grown up will let you have the last word. ??








disagree as you

Gwyneth

The men in my family are respectful of women as they are of all human beings but perhaps you have had different experiences which have influenced your views. From my perspective the men in my family do not need to be re-educated as they were always encouraged to treat other human beings in a considerate and caring way.

Is anyone saying all men need to be re-educated? Although tbf I think a revision course might be in order for those not in need of the full ‘ how to stop being an inconsiderate jerk around women’ course.

This problem has always been with us and always will be. I remember 60 years ago, when I was aged 10 (attacked by an older boy), things were the same. All we can do to protect ourselves is (maybe) learn basic.self-defence.

This will never go away,whether we like it or not we are the weaker sex physically. Since historical times women have been used as pawns or signs of conquest during wars.
We need to educate our sons how to treat women not with scorn or take advantage like a lot do.
Who hasn't seen a little boy being praised for being brave and an older one for getting stuck in ,in at a Rugby match or boxing ring. Little girls are still expected to look clean and neat and not be "Bolshi".whilst their brothers are praised for standing their ground.
I have witnessed it in the classroom and at parents nights,attitudes so different towards one sex than the other.
Men will always be able to dominate us physically but we have to educate them to stop wanting to.
The big question is how?

The men in my family are respectful of women as they are of all human beings but perhaps you have had different experiences which have influenced your views. From my perspective the men in my family do not need to be re-educated as they were always encouraged to treat other human beings in a considerate and caring way.

Two things concern me here. One is the publication of the name and face of the policeman accused, before he has been charged. I thought this was illegal. The other is that Sarah was reportedly "visiting friends". How could she do this? Was she in their bubble? I have not been able to visit friends for over a year.

Oh dear - how many times do we have to say this is not a thread about murder alone?

I assume you agree or why else would you post it without a reference?

Maybe you should take up this point with Prof. FitzGerald? I am only quoting her words.

Gwyneth

Why do we need to re-educate men who are already considerate and respectful towards women? I really wish some people on here would not assume that all men are out to harm women. Most are not and those who are determined to assault and kill anyone will probably do so anyway. The murder of the young woman in the news is dreadful but we need to be careful that we do not treat all men out there as prospective murderers.

We don’t and aren’t. If you think that you aren’t reading the posts properly.

Why do we need to re-educate men who are already considerate and respectful towards women? I really wish some people on here would not assume that all men are out to harm women. Most are not and those who are determined to assault and kill anyone will probably do so anyway. The murder of the young woman in the news is dreadful but we need to be careful that we do not treat all men out there as prospective murderers.

Gwyneth

Just read this on BBC news site from Marian FitzGerald visiting professor of criminology at Kent University. She said, ‘while womens’ fear was real statistics showed women were less likely to be murdered than men. Yes the fear is real and it is heightened when something like this is in the news. That doesn’t mean the risk has changed .... men are far more likely to be murdered...... Women account for a third of all murders’

But we are not talking about just murder are we?

We are talking about yes murder, but violence, harassment, discrimination, etc the many, many daily experiences that women endure.

Why do men feel that they can get away with such behaviour?
Why do men feel the need to display such behaviour?

My view is that we, as women, need to educate the men in our lives as to how to treat people. Our sons, fathers, partners, brothers have to be re-educated about what women experience and how to relate to them. We should feel safe to walk, travel, work and live anywhere felling safe from harm. What we wear has no bearing on how men should respond to us. I wore hot pants and mini skirts because that was the fashion, not because I intended to be abused or victimised in any way. Plus it didn’t happen either!!
A man can walk down the street bare chested ( not always a pretty sight!) but not receive the abuse, foul language that a woman receives if she wears a crop top etc.
Men need to change, not women live in fear!

There were 671 murder victims in the UK in 2018/19 64% of victims were men.

I had not realised there were so many, scary thought.

Just read this on BBC news site from Marian FitzGerald visiting professor of criminology at Kent University. She said, ‘while womens’ fear was real statistics showed women were less likely to be murdered than men. Yes the fear is real and it is heightened when something like this is in the news. That doesn’t mean the risk has changed .... men are far more likely to be murdered...... Women account for a third of all murders’

I reckon the above is another thread really as it's an in-depth discussion.

i remember about 35 years ago when the police told women to stay at home and not go out of an evening. i replied that if women paid the same in taxes etc then why should they not have the same access to buses, roads etc. No men were told to stay at home - just women. I used to go to self defence lessons and the lady that ran it told me that a group had designed a spray to be used on attackers inconjuction with the police . the day before the item was to go on sale the police - yes the same police that had helped with the design- said it would prosecute anybody using it. Trust in most police was lost then.

Why do people kill/ murder ? What makes them do it ?
Millions of us live side by side and wouldn't even tread on a spider so why is it that some feel fit to kill ? What is it that drives them to do it ?

Yes it would be foolhardy not to try to take mitigating actions, but I think that men must step up and decide what they need to do to change the situation that appears to be getting worse.

It seems to me that the only difference between our experience as young women and young women today is the fact that today we are willing to talk about our experiences but the actual experiences do not appear to have got any better, in fact we all seem even more fearful,

Well, when I was a young woman of twenty something, I and many other young women did walk on our own at night and came to no harm.

Admittedly we didn't do so in Glasgow on the evenings of a Ranger-Celtics match or at all in the weeks where Preacher John was killing young women in the streets but at other times we did.

I have also walked alone in Copenhagen, Hamburg and many smaller towns.

I wasn't especially foolhardy either.

Nowadays, I would hesitate to walk alone, and I would certainly advise young women not to.

So what has changed? Well, there are no police walked the beat any more, and a few of those who kill or rape have been found to be taxi drivers, whom you used to be able to trust.

So what is the answer? Learn some form of self-defence whether you are old or young, unless you want a return to Victorian days where women had to be protected all the time.

Just out of interest ( and following my conversation with dh) how many of you know what the men in your lives would do to reduce the fear factor felt by women out in public ( like crossing the road) I know this is only a small part of the problem.

I didnt know that particular statistic Jane but it doesnt surprise me, its partly to do with the value that society places on particular groups of people. I dont know how to phrase this but I find your views on that particular issue so helpful. Sorry if that sounds odd.

JaneJudge

I have wrote and deleted this post so many times but do you know women with learning disabilities are 7 mores times more likely to be sexually abused by men than women without a learning disability? The problem of male to female violence is chronic in all its forms

I’m glad you posted this. I remember years ago reading that the introduction of Makaton gave the possibility for abused people to have a vocabulary to describe their sexual abuse. However, I was also aware at how much sexual abuse went unprosecuted even when reported because they were deemed to be ‘unreliable witnesses’ that a jury would never believe.

Violence does not necessarily affect younger women either, but I read (Feminist Census) that shockingly women over 60 are twice as likely to be killed by their own son than a stranger.