"Five Giants" on the road to reconstruction

These are serious and important challenges. I might replace the term "social housing" with "housing" as we need more housing of different sorts, obviously including social housing.

In order to have any hope of achieving a better future for the UK, our first priority should be constitutional reform. The way we are governed needs a total rethink.

I hope that there is a consensus around Hennessey's "five giants". Varian is right that our first priority should be constitutional reform. Without that the other reforms won't be put in place. This govt is too entrenched in its ideas for continuing to dismantle the State.

At the moment the govt is pursuing plans to introduce voter ID in order to "reduce the risk of voter fraud and improve the integrity of the electoral process". This despite very little evidence that such fraud exists.

I would agree with you both that Constitutional Reform should be included but not as first priority. I think it's really important you have your 'five' being taken forward on an equal basis.

I'm not so sure about changing Social Housing to Housing. Perhaps someone can enlighten me but I have a feeling housing grew as social housing grew in the past.

I like Peter Hennessy, very sensible. Yes we need more Social Housing: other housing will follow the market demand but not Social.
There may be cross-party consensus on his five giants, but it's usually the means that separates political parties rather than the ends.

Does the term "Social Housing" have connotations of inequality? When I was young we lived in a council house, which most people did back in the fifties and nobody thought there was anything wrong with that name.

Dinahmo we have to have ID to pick up a parcel in the post office, we have to have ID for some transactions in banks, we have to have ID for some deliveries to our homes. I can not see any valid reason not to have ID for when we vote.

Serious challenges.

The current education system for 16+ would need significant changes.

My 16 year old granddaughter is leaving school this year to go onto a college to do a 4 year B.Tech. Much of the course is Technical Education and Skills, Preparing our Society and Economy for Artificial Intelligence. Two of the challenges.

She is fortunate to have a college close to home. Universities can't offer her what she needs particularly as she wants an apprenticeship when she finishes. The college can.

I think I'm right in saying that just under 50% of children do not go to university. I wonder how many go onto some other education eg B.Techs, as my granddaughter is doing.

I'll be interested to hear of what all the parties say about these two challenges and how they can be achieved.

BTEC has always offered a good alternative but sadly the FE Colleges have been held back by government cuts over many years. I think, if we want people with good technical skills, a great deal of building back and extending the current offering needs to be done. I do agree the two challenges Hennessey suggested need to be in the list.

GrannyGravy13

Dinahmo we have to have ID to pick up a parcel in the post office, we have to have ID for some transactions in banks, we have to have ID for some deliveries to our homes. I can not see any valid reason not to have ID for when we vote.

I think you have the wrong thread here, GG13.

I also think you're wrong but I'll elaborate if I find the thread

FE colleges are still there, many of the technical colleges became Universities, although half of students go to Uni, nearly 50% end up not doing graduate work. Overall, certainly in this area there is no shortage of education opportunities, wether they are used in the best way I have my doubts.

Social Housing, again in this area there is a lot being built by the housing association, both shared ownership and to rent. For singles as well as families and you pay according to your means, I’m sure there is a waiting list but not a long one, there are a couple of large housing sites just starting, planning and finance is holding both up at present.
A lot of locals are saying “where are we going to find all the people to put in them”, nevertheless this is repeated for every large village and town in this area and they all have a social housing element.

I'm not sure anyone said FE colleges are not there Katie59 but perhaps that is not what you meant. They have, however, been increasingly defunded over the years.

I presume that the "Technical Education and Skills" would be one area you think should see reinvestment.

Re a lot of social housing being built - what is "a lot".

The National Housing Federation, which represents housing associations, says England needs about 145,000 new social homes every year, including 90,000 at below-market rent. But in 2018 only 6,000 social rented homes were built, as a result of sharp government cuts to funding for new social housing since 2010.

www.theguardian.com/society/2019/sep/25/social-housing-crisis-builds-government-passes-buck

I'm not at all sure if you would have Social Housing on your list and if not, what you would replace it with.

We have to devolve government back into localities and bring back small representative and accountable bodies in small towns.
People feel completely disenfranchised from local democracy, and in order to bring about any of the changes above, this has to change.

Education, far too many young people get to 30 yrs old without any technical skill and are stuck with low paid work.

Housing, Orbit run social housing in this area and I know 6 friends, ranging from a single mum, a divorced man to retired couples and singles, move from private rented to nice social housing after only a short wait. It all seems well organized.
It is however M40 corridor and anyone who is looking for a job has got one. We also have large numbers of Migrants at all levels boosting the workforce, so a big demand for housing.

We seem to be agreeing that the suggestion that "Technical Education and Skills" should be one of the 'Five'. It would be interesting to know the facts surrounding what this. Do the low paid 30-year-olds show a greater lack of Technical skills than their higher-paid peers? Do they show gaps anywhere else in their education such as learning to acquire knowledge (learning to learn), learning to think critically, digital literacy? Do these gaps stop them from moving on? If so should we rename the Challenge?

We also seem to have some agreement about Constitutional reform. Could we call this "extending democracy" or do different posters have different views of this? Could we drop one of the "Five" Henessay gives us to include this?

One of the things I feel is missing is that the equality of opportunity that comes when the caring roles are extended to all and not seen as "women's work". The pandemic has shown that more women have given up their jobs to care for children at home even when they are the higher earner. How can this be embodied in the Challenges?

My concern is the choices that young people make at 18, we know that 50% of graduates do not end up in graduate employment, quite probably 50% of those who did not go to Uni do not acquire a skill.

Defining a skill I would say, an apprenticeship or other training lasting a year or two in that industry, not a short induction course to a low paid job.

Somewhere there is a problem in advice given and choices made

It is not a case of extending democracy but replacing a sham democracy (rule by a minority) by a true democracy (rule by consent of the majority).

We need a Constitutional Commission, informed by people's juries, to examine everything from the Monarchy, House of Lords, the influence of the media- particularly national newspapers, party funding and the power that can buy, the House of Commons and its confrontational design, to different levels of representation and the means of electing representatives and making the decisions which affect communities.

We ought to have the humility to look at other countries which have successful democracies and learn what could work here.

I feel too prescriptive a view about what should be done would stop it having any chance of being on the list Varian. The "Challenges" of today are headlines just as they were in the 1940s. How we carry them out will come from the government. You would have to work at getting enough people in who agree with you voted into power to get it done the way you describe.

I agree, and it appears others do too that an additional "headline" should be "Extend Democracy". After that I think each party would campaign on what that would be.

Can we put two of the others together or lose one so we still have five, I wonder?

Katie59

My concern is the choices that young people make at 18, we know that 50% of graduates do not end up in graduate employment, quite probably 50% of those who did not go to Uni do not acquire a skill.

Defining a skill I would say, an apprenticeship or other training lasting a year or two in that industry, not a short induction course to a low paid job.

Somewhere there is a problem in advice given and choices made

Agree - that's the point I tried to make in my comment (muse Sun 14-Mar-21 16:53:51) regarding my granddaughter who has decided to not take A levels despite the fact that she has the potential to achieve good grades in them. However, advice can only be given if the choice is there !

Taking onboard your figures and that only just over 50% go to university any way, our 16+ need more choice of what and particularly where to go to learn that skill.

If half that go to university can’t find graduate work, would it not be better to give them a technical skill that will probably pay just as well. The universities will accept whoever applies however marginal their prospects are, it’s more about bums on seats than employment prospects. There are some courses that require 3 “A”s most much lower.

In the early 60s the percentage of school leavers going to university was between 3% and 4% - and there were still quite a few who failed exams, had to repeat years or dropped out.

Obviously there were many school leavers then who for one reason or another either did not get the opportunity.

Even so, it is hard to believe that 50% of today's school leavers are just as capable of benefiting from a university education as that tiny minority of our generation were.

It sometimes seems that degrees have been devalued by this huge expansion in numbers to the extent that, in spite of the cost, many now think they need a postgraduate qualification to get a decent job.

In the early 1800s, when the Ragged schools were started, how many children learned to read to the level they do now Varian. Do you find it hard to believe that, offered the opportunity, most children could learn to the level of an 1800's rich man's child or better?

I am shocked that you see it that way. No equality for you then?

varian Don't forget that today's universities include former polytechnics and some colleges of higher education, which weren't counted as universities. 18 year olds themselves know which are the traditional universities and often decide that they don't offer the kind of courses they want.

One of the huge advantages of German education and industry has been that technical education is offered at a higher education level. With the kind of jobs in today's world and, more importantly, those of the future, we are in greater need than ever of people with high level skills.

I couldn't put an exact figure on the number who benefit from a university education, but I certainly think the majority need education/training beyond 18 and will probably need to retrain a number of times during their lifetime. Maybe university isn't the right place for some of them, but there are so few opportunities for Level 4 apprenticeships that it's usually the only option.

Katie59

If half that go to university can’t find graduate work, would it not be better to give them a technical skill that will probably pay just as well. The universities will accept whoever applies however marginal their prospects are, it’s more about bums on seats than employment prospects. There are some courses that require 3 “A”s most much lower.

How about providing a technical skill at degree level?

growstuff

Katie59

If half that go to university can’t find graduate work, would it not be better to give them a technical skill that will probably pay just as well. The universities will accept whoever applies however marginal their prospects are, it’s more about bums on seats than employment prospects. There are some courses that require 3 “A”s most much lower.

How about providing a technical skill at degree level?

We already do via apprenticeships. They already to to degree level.