Pippa Middleton has had a baby girl[smile]

Lexi I’m sorry but I think you’re being very harsh to Jane whose post was very measured and polite. I honestly don’t know why comments about PM matter so much. She’s a complete stranger to us all. I think it’s really not true that coming from a poor background is seen as a major advantage. What I think is true is that people from poorer backgrounds have to struggle harder in many cases to achieve what they do achieve and this is to be applauded. We don’t know each other on GN ( unless we’ve met up in RL) We all make assumptions based on what we choose to reveal about ourselves ( and who knows if that’s true?) Discussions about inequalities are complex and I think too difficult to have properly on this type of forum with sweeping generalisations being made.

You are perfectly entitled to your opinions suziewoozie and I would strongly defend your right to give them, but as you may have noticed, I seldom agree with you.

Jane made several assumptions about me on which she based her post, which may have been measured and polite, but though she said that she didn’t want to lecture me, in my opinion, she did, and as she doesn’t know me I thought it patronising. You disagree, fine by me, it’s your opinion.

You too are missing the point about those from a poorer background. Personally I back to the hilt and applaud anyone who works hard and is successful, no matter where they come from, but particularly if they have had, say, severe financial restraints, which they have to overcome to succeed. However, it is noticeable that when these efforts are vigorously applauded (quite rightly) personal achievements always seem to be listed, whereas all we hear about someone from a more affluent background is the school attended, the friends and preferably any high jinks that have been dug up. This trait is particularly noticeable with politicians, which I think I have already mentioned. Apart from ‘Good Works’ the type of thing I mean is such as picking fruit to work your way through college being applauded, doing voluntary work all through the Long Vac not mentioned.

People seem increasingly to try to disguise their backgrounds because it leaves them open to criticism. Accents are the same, how many estuary accents are around?

As for Pippa, I do feel sorry for her. Ok she married a wealthy man, not yet a punishable offence as far as I know. She doesn’t court the press. No one seemed to know she was having a baby, she didn’t make a big fuss about it. She wrote a book about entertaining that was panned, but that’s about it, yet she gets criticised without opening her mouth.

It looks like we have accused each other of making generalisations today,

Anyway I think the topic is now exhausted as far as I am concerned. I’m sure we will cross swords again, I totally respect your views, just don’t always agree with them. Nb although I now class myself a floating voter, I stay well clear of the Politics page, I have too much respect for my blood pressure! However I shall continue to sit on the fence about the Royal Family, though I think there’s a lot to come, I may need a cushion.

It is not the case that we mention the schools people go to as some kind of denigration, quite the contrary, there is still a culture of forelock tugging towards the aristocracy where some have lifelong privileges not bestowed on others . This country is still ridden with a class system whereby one can be given titles merely because of an accident of birth. I doubt there is one area of public life in this country whether it is the military, judiciary, politics, even the theatre and arts, where attending a public school has been a disadvantage. This is not to say we can’t point to individuals who have emerged by virtue of their own talent, but there are even more of those who have emerged from a family dynasty.

I only repeated the information you had given in your post Lexi. I asked you to explain why it is 'preferable to be from a poor family' - which is what you posted and you still can't explain.

vegansrock

It is not the case that we mention the schools people go to as some kind of denigration, quite the contrary, there is still a culture of forelock tugging towards the aristocracy where some have lifelong privileges not bestowed on others . This country is still ridden with a class system whereby one can be given titles merely because of an accident of birth. I doubt there is one area of public life in this country whether it is the military, judiciary, politics, even the theatre and arts, where attending a public school has been a disadvantage. This is not to say we can’t point to individuals who have emerged by virtue of their own talent, but there are even more of those who have emerged from a family dynasty.

Exactly this. Hard evidence ( not sweeping generalisations) show how privately educated people still dominate in all areas of public and private life. And it’s not simply because they are better than their state school counterparts. It’s the huge network of privilege and power and well connected people that it gives you access to.
Years ago UCAS followed up the degree classifications awarded to every student in a particular cohort and compared it to their A level grades. The results were crystal clear - privately educated pupils consistently under performed given what would have been expected. Having the advantage of much smaller classes and the superior resources of independent schools meant they got higher A level grades not because they were brighter but because of such advantages. That’s why some universities think places at top universities should take more seriously potential and not actual ability.

We’ve seen in the pandemic how the independent schools have had superior material resources for their students whilst some state school pupils waited months for a laptop or broadband access whilst Gavin Williamson floundered and wrung his hands.

I know nothing will change re the above apart from a bit of fiddling around at the edges, but don’t let’s pretend that British society is anything but massively unfair and unequal.As for PM - she now has the added advantage of who her sister is. She may or may not be a really nice person - that’s actually irrelevant

One of the parents at school has just had a little girl. Her sister (in my class) told me she’s called Grace. They aren’t well off but it’s still good news.

If Pippa had come from a family on average income, went to the local comp, did not have a sister who had married into the RF, would we be interested in her or her baby?

seamstress

If Pippa had come from a family on average income, went to the local comp, did not have a sister who had married into the RF, would we be interested in her or her baby?

Of course not - if I knew her and she was my friend I’d be delighted for her. The difference is so clear isn’t it?

seamstress

If Pippa had come from a family on average income, went to the local comp, did not have a sister who had married into the RF, would we be interested in her or her baby?

This! Woman has baby...happens every day. Why anyone would be remotely interested in this is beyond me. I really don't get the almost hero-worship of anyone even tenuously connected to the Royal Family.

I cannot get worked up because someone is perceived to be born of a posh womb ?

Pippa Mathews surely cannot be blamed for her sister marrying Prince William?

I was unaware that having money was deemed to be a crime in the UK now? There are hundreds if not thousands of folks who have done well for themselves after being born into financially unstable/poor households, are their children going to be subject to sneering remarks?

More does need to be done to help the disadvantaged in society, but please remember that the majority of so called privileged folks are employers, doctors, entrepreneurs etc the UK needs them, no point throwing the posh baby out with the bath water as this will not help the poor baby

GrannyGravy13

I cannot get worked up because someone is perceived to be born of a posh womb ?

Pippa Mathews surely cannot be blamed for her sister marrying Prince William?

I was unaware that having money was deemed to be a crime in the UK now? There are hundreds if not thousands of folks who have done well for themselves after being born into financially unstable/poor households, are their children going to be subject to sneering remarks?

More does need to be done to help the disadvantaged in society, but please remember that the majority of so called privileged folks are employers, doctors, entrepreneurs etc the UK needs them, no point ^throwing the posh baby out with the bath water as this will not help the poor baby^

I don’t think PM is being blamed for anything. I think some of us are just amazed at the interest in her - she’s hardly Sarah Gilbert is she?

The difference is the press released the news of the birth, for me it’s the same as the birth of every new life.

The O/P just said the child had been born, all that follows of wealth etc is pointless, has nothing to do with the birth

It's lovely for the Matthews that they have a new daughter.

It's also equally lovely for adaunas's pupil that she has a new sister.

I think those of us who criticise ‘privilege’ are really criticising the lack of action on inequalities. The standard of home schooling that the private sector achieved is to be lauded but Gavin Williamson should be roundly condemned as he failed many of our poorest children. Remember it needs a footballer to get the poorest even having access to a lunch.

I think the problem on here so often is the tribal nature of so much debate. You’re quite unusual in that you are not blind to the failures of our Govt ( whilst being I think right of centre). And also, despite many a comment to the contrary ( commie, Marxist, leftie) most of us left of centre see the failings on their own side as well but just want things to be a bit better managed than an individualistic free for all with people being condemned and neglected because ‘it’s their own fault’

The above post was for GG sorry

Anniebach

The difference is the press released the news of the birth, for me it’s the same as the birth of every new life.

The O/P just said the child had been born, all that follows of wealth etc is pointless, has nothing to do with the birth

But it was in the news because of wealth and privilege

Right of centre at the moment suziewoozie however if there was to be a credible centrist party which had a realistic chance of getting enough seats to have some clout in parliament I would be ^ in like Flynn^

I don’t think you’ve given an accurate reason for why this birth was in the press suziewoosie. It was reported because it is of interest, because people feel they ‘know’ Pippa - and many like what they know of her. Yes, she’s wealthy and privileged, but that isn’t why. In fact it had less coverage than a story about the Radford’s 22nd baby, or a minor celebrity from Love Island, or many other stories that fill the paper and social media, they print what they think people will want to read. When Katie Price has her next baby that will be MUCH bigger news. If it was James Middleton’s OH, much less so.

seamstress

If Pippa had come from a family on average income, went to the local comp, did not have a sister who had married into the RF, would we be interested in her or her baby?

Not unless we knew her, or had heard of her from someone who knew her, and even then, we wouldn’t feel the need to comment on her education, her financial status or her relatives.
We’d just be happy about some good news, which I think was the intention of the OP.

Yes that was my intention Mollygo.

It was as you say Casdon reported because it would be of interest to some due to her being Kate's sister and William's s.i.l. not just because of wealth and privilege.

Smileless2012 a new baby is a joy

JaneJudge lol

I'd forgotten it was about that! Yay - a baby ?

But wealth and privilege are part and parcel of mixing in what are deemed to be upper class circles - those who have large incomes, houses, send children to elite schools , they mix together and inter marry. We would not register Pippa having baby if she wasn’t part of this elite . Don’t try to pretend otherwise. We aren’t just interested in woman has baby , but wealthy women who is an in law of a royal has baby and suddenly we are all thrilled at this news. It’s part of the big soap opera a bit like the Kardashians.