Flying the flag

MaizieD

^The only thing that supprises me about some of the posts on here is not seeing "we won, so we get to choose - the flag is ours".^

I was very amused yesterday to see on twitter a video of Steve Bray (the lone anti Brexit protestor with a clause inserted in the Policing Bill specially for him) protesting outside parliament wrapped in a Union Jack..

twitter.com/Protest4E/status/1376499431625924610

I have a horrible feeling that we will get a lot of pretentiously dictatorial people who elect themselves "Flag Monitor" in the near future.

Newatthis

I’m very much a fly the flag person and after living in many countries, experiencing many cultures first hand and travelling to many destinations we all should be proud of our nation - warts and all!

No one has ever stopped you flying the flag but just why do you, and those like you, have the right to tell others, who don't see that as their way of showing their patriotism, that they must do what you tell them?

I’m very much a fly the flag person and after living in many countries, experiencing many cultures first hand and travelling to many destinations we all should be proud of our nation - warts and all!

The only thing that supprises me about some of the posts on here is not seeing "we won, so we get to choose - the flag is ours".

I was very amused yesterday to see on twitter a video of Steve Bray (the lone anti Brexit protestor with a clause inserted in the Policing Bill specially for him) protesting outside parliament wrapped in a Union Jack..

twitter.com/Protest4E/status/1376499431625924610

Pantglas2 ?

Yes that was the point I was making, Alegrias, that it’s down to the people to choose where and when to fly their flag regardless of political commandeering of same.

I watched that documentary too, it was excellent, wasn't it?

The flag changed its meaning for the Irish, as I understand it, because they had something tangible (the football success) that showed them they all had something in common that they could justifiably be proud of. Happy to be corrected by anybody who has more background to it than me.

The Irish government didn't mandate that they should all start waving the flag to show how patriotic they all were.

I watched the Jack Charlton documentary last night where it was said that until his relative success in managing Eire football team in 80s and 90s the Tricolour was perceived as an IRA flag.

The pride in that team meant the flag took its proper place and lost its political meaning within a decade, a good thing surely?

Some of the posts show how very undemocratic this Tory appropriation of the Union flag is. People want the choice to fly it when and if they feel it appropriate - or not to fly it. They do not want childish replies about something so fundamental to our democracy, i.e. choice and the right to differ.

Since when did we have government diktat in this way? You cannot bring a country together by upending the tradition of areas of the country having their variations and choices by issuing a decree about flags. It can only be divisive. That is the way to divide and encourage resistance against this very hard-right government.

It already starting with those prepared to speak out against the colonisers who, as colonisers always do, know what is better for those parts of the country that do not want to say "Hail Boris". The Tory instruction that it be flown on all government buildings smacks of graceless subjugation; suddenly we are being shown very clearly that it is not okay to disagree with this particular government.

The only thing that supprises me about some of the posts on here is not seeing "we won, so we get to choose - the flag is ours". That seems to be the far-right attitude on most things these days.

Callistemon, when Starmer spoke positively about using the Union flag, he was sneered at. Corbyn did huge damage to the LP because so many didn’t believe he would defend this country, saw him as despising our history, the British Empire did some terrible things with the Union flag leading invasions, colonisation, the destruction of sound economies.
In order to use our flag in a way that doesn’t diminish or offend many British citizens, we have to own and teach our history effectively.

Exactly Callistemon and foodbanks exist in socialist countries!

Returnofthemc

So, the flag seems to have been appropriated by the Tories
It's not their flag to take. It belongs to every single person who lives in this country
It smacks of jingoism and imperialism
I wonder if they will fly them over the ever increasing foodbanks...

No-one is preventing Labour, Lib Dem or any other brand of politician from flying the flag if they wish.

Lest we forget

Returnofthemc

So, the flag seems to have been appropriated by the Tories
It's not their flag to take. It belongs to every single person who lives in this country
It smacks of jingoism and imperialism
I wonder if they will fly them over the ever increasing foodbanks...

There’s a Spanish flag flying in the food bank at my town in Spain which is under Pedro Sanchez socialist rule - go figure!

Returnoftheme good point.

Good point re foodbanks Returnofthemc.

So, the flag seems to have been appropriated by the Tories
It's not their flag to take. It belongs to every single person who lives in this country
It smacks of jingoism and imperialism
I wonder if they will fly them over the ever increasing foodbanks...

You would care if you lived here MissAdventure.

The DUP have a lot to answer for, not least their part in brexit, which is so nonsensical in the context of NI.

Agree with you Varian

I'm afraid I don't care much one way or the other.

Even something as innocent as a flag is used to antagonize. Nobody used to advertise themselves in this way. Why, all of a sudden must people draw attention to " their" flags if it isn't done to annoy ? What's it all about anyway ?

Agree with you Nadateturbe. It would just be asking for trouble.

The DUP have a lot to answer for, not least their part in brexit, which is so nonsensical in the context of NI.

^Iam64

I agree vegans rock and wish that wasn’t so. We were walking with a group of friends, one had grown up in NI and has family there. They’re Catholic. His response to seeing a Union flag flying from a farm house was one of anxiety. He assumed the owners were Britain First types^

It works both ways. I will not venture into an area where the Tricolour is flying. Flags in NI are often used to denote whether an area is republican/RC or loyalist/Protestant.
Great way to live. Housing estates are still largely segregated.

Apparently the DUP is calling for the flag to be flown in line with GB,. Interesting to see how this is responded to. I understand them wanting this as we are part of the UK, but I feel in NI we should not fly any flags.

Mollygo

I can understand the quote from @nazirafzal posted by MaizieD.
There are other instances where flags flying after a military coup has really frightening implications for the residents.
I don’t really find flags sinister, except on the prison in our nearest town which flies the flag. I never understood why.

Thank you, Mollygo. I'm glad someone noted it.

What I've been trying to say, and I think that others have too, is that there is nothing intrinsically sinister in flying the flag.

What is sinister for many people is the way that the flag is being used by our current government. Ways which look similar to some disturbing historical precedents.

There have been some 'interesting' reactions to this idea, too, on this thread.

Sorry growstuff you’re right. I hadn’t meant my comment as a direct response to yours, just a general point about how complex the situation is there.