Mr Johnson and Mr Cummings

"We know nothing about the context under which the comment was made or even for sure who leaked it."

Oh yes. we do!

It wouldn't take long to trawl back through media reports from the time.

At the time, there was much support for what was called the Great Barrington Declaration, which was generally supported by the Daily Mail, Telegraph, the BBC and some other sources. Johnson invited the writers of the declaration to a meeting just a couple of days before the second lockdown was announced.

The Great Barrington Declaration contradicted what Sage was advising Johnson to do. As a libertarian, he wanted to believe the Great Barrington Declaration and mavericks such as Karol Sikora and Carl Heneghan. What these people were suggesting would have resulted in many excess deaths, but Johnson believed the economy, people complaining about lost jobs and NHS delays in non-Covid treatment were more important. There were even people on GN who supported such ideas.

By dithering and not following his own government's advisers, Johnson indirectly did cause excess deaths.

Earlier lockdowns had saved lives. And lives had been lost because Johnson was too late locking down and continued to be too late locking down. He should have learned by his mistake in locking down too late first time round but he didn’t

EllanVannin

It's so enlightening to note that there are so many perfect people around.

Really? Who's claiming anybody is perfect?

Stories like that should carry health warnings especially for those who are blinkered.

Just a reminder about why some Conservative MPs tweeted identical posts in support of Cummings:

www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit-news/danny-kruger-on-dominic-cummings-and-brexit-80990

I apologise for linking to the New European. There were other sources of the same information, but it was the first one which came up on Google.

At the time, signing off on Brexit was still in the balance. Pro-Brexit MPs were prepared to sacrifice their own moral judgment for a political goal. Cummings and Johnson were seen as the only two who could deliver Brexit. Those MPs who called for Cummings' resignation can hold their heads up high, but the rest should really examine their conscience and I hope the message gets through to those who elected them that they can't be trusted to do the "right" thing.

This is what happens when you appoint people not based on talent or experience, but whether they're cronies, sycophants, Brexiters or seen as loyal to their leader.

They're squirming now and rather than admit they were wrong, some of them will lash out and seek to blame anyone to save their own skin.

It's so enlightening to note that there are so many perfect people around.

Although the bodies comment by the PM was a daft and tactless thing to say I am not joining those eager to condemn him.
We know nothing about the context under which the comment was made or even for sure who leaked it.
Cummings is the prime suspect of course as he has an axe to grind.

How many people come out with equally silly throw-away lines like “if he does that again I will kill him “?
Or another which I have seen several times on threads “I would rather stick pins in my eyes than do xxxxx”

Obviously not meant to be taken literally and Boris’s remark too was probably a frustrated response to MPs clamouring for further lockdowns when he was desperately trying to minimise the adverse effect earlier lockdowns had had on the country.

This story has been blown out of all proportion.

So do I MayBee70, along with many others. There are times when you can't do right for doing wrong.
It happens to the best of us.

That comment about bodies piling high was made months ago. Why is it being leaked now? I'm sure it was said in sheer exasperation and we aren't told the context. What was being said to him by others in the room?
If Cummings is the leaker is this all he's got on Boris?

He says thing without engaging his brain. Always has. Said the pandemic would be over n 12 weeks. He never learns from it.

If it had been said about " bodies piled high ", I can clearly see the significance of that statement. It's one which can easily be said in a fit of " damned if I do, damned if I don't ", in other words, should there be another lockdown and knowing how the public will/ would react to it the above is something what you'd say in the fit of the moment.

I remember last year saying to my D about those who were still flying hither and thither that they all deserved to be infected-----because many others had to adhere to the rules and regulations of being incarcerated while some thought it alright to do as they pleased without thought.

BJ is in the position/situation that if the Indian variant were to spread here what would he do to appease the public ? Have another lockdown or let people do what they want ?

So Johnson et al were at pains to vouch for Cummings character last year but are now saying he’s a liar

Next development in the story. Which may, or may not be true.

But I've just seen on twitter that Bozo's supporters are saying that Cummings was lying in the No 10 Rose Garden about his trip to Durham and his eye test.

How do we fit that into the narrative? ?

Let's be correct about Mr Gove. He hasn't said Boris didn't say it. He said he 'didn't hear language of that kind'. Which could just mean he wasn't listening, heard something similar but not exactly that or any other combination you like. I remember an elderly relative who had selective hearing....

I think the 'piling up in their thousands' outburst is just the sort of remark in bad taste that BJ could easily have made in private at the end of his tether.

What bothers me more than a temper tantrum is the months apparently wasted tracing the source of a leak 6 months ago, and finding that Simon Case who I'd had high hopes of as a clean pair of hands came over as very weak yesterday. That's surely serious for the PM.

Also, all that time, attention and money spent on his flat, making him look what used to be called a popinjay, when we are told he's working full title on the pandemic (yet we only see him playing football). Or if it wasn't he who spent the time, attention and money there's another question...

Urmstongran

And yet, talking of sleaze, isn’t the Labour mayor of Liverpool about to start a court case for actual corruption?

Not as newsworthy for some reason!

I think you'll find, Ug, that we had a completely separate thread yesterday all about 'other politicians' corruption'.

I'm at a loss to understand why we need to discuss it again. It's not like we can't remember what happened yesterday (yet..)

Urmstongran

And yet, talking of sleaze, isn’t the Labour mayor of Liverpool about to start a court case for actual corruption?

Not as newsworthy for some reason!

Actually he hadn’t been charged yet but do carry on posting facts ???

I believe there is an impending court case, and like all politicians, local or national, he should face the full force of the law, irrespective of his political allegiances. The difference is he doesn't have a battalion of liars lining up to deny it

Oh look, a squirrel.

And yet, talking of sleaze, isn’t the Labour mayor of Liverpool about to start a court case for actual corruption?

Not as newsworthy for some reason!

Alegrias1

I think he was shouting. Imagine. Johnson in a temper and shouting, who'd believe it?

I wouldn't be surprised if a few expletives have been deleted from his alleged statement...

I think he was shouting. Imagine. Johnson in a temper and shouting, who'd believe it?

He must have said it very loudly and clearly then which for BJ is pretty impressive

Just noticed that I missed out a word from my previous post.

It should be "people heard it said from outside the room".

I haven't changed my view of Cummings one little bit. He's a dishonourable rat. Johnson was a fool to rely on him. Nevertheless, Cummings is a skilled political player and knows how to win votes. For example, his support for the north and an earlier lockdown would have won the popular vote. Cummings doesn't care personally about the people in the north or those who died as a result of delaying lockdown - it's a game to be won. He was never loyal to Johnson. His priority always was to win the game.