The Troubles

"who weren’t protecting people, they were protecting the union"

They were protecting innocent people from terrorists and from being shot and blown up by a minority trying to inflict their will on everyone else. It is very easy to sit back, after the event when the danger has passed, and make judgements.

The function of the military, as is the function of the police, is protecting government interests rather than people. Individual soldiers may protect people - the military doesn’t.

AmberSpyglass You have previously said you disagree with the British Army being there so that must surely colour your opinion - the very fact they were there was wrong so everything they did was wrong.

They didn’t need to shoot people in the back , no matter how wicked that person was

What about Tony Blair?

oldwoman70

Well, of course - all our previously held opinions colour our responses to the thread. That’s why we’re here! I could say the same about you.

The British Army was there in a legal capacity; the IRA was not.

Just because something is legal doesn’t make it right. And British soldiers committed terrible crimes there that they should rightly be punished for. The shocking thing is how long it’s taken, not that they’re now old.

My brother was a soldier in NI during the troubles, he’s never been the same, unable to settle, 3 failed marriages, post traumatic stress disorder. Going out on patrol knowing that there’s a bomb round the corner or someone is pointing a rifle at you wears you down, some break down and loose control.
Afghanistan is the same you don’t know the pressure unless you are there.

Couldn’t agree more Katie59

AmberSpyglass, the paramilitaries murdered, knee capped, behaved like the gangsters many of the still are. The army went in to attempt to save lives. Lives were lost on all sides.
Katie59, you know your brothers experience wasn’t isolated. Terrifying for everyone, including those young soldiers. It’s lazy and simplistic to absolve terrorists of responsibility for murder/torture/criminal behaviour and to refuse to allow men in their 70’s some peace.

Does Bloody Sunday mean nothing to you?

It’s clear that there are very solid reasons for prosecuting those responsible for disgusting criminal acts after the fact.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/may/22/northern-ireland-no-amnesty-veterans-amritsar-bloody-sunday

www.newstatesman.com/politics/northern-ireland/2019/03/how-british-forces-colluded-sectarian-violence-northern-ireland

You can have as informed opinion as you like Amber but I have every right to disagree with you and I do so from the point of view that I was there. Were you there? Did you experience being shot at, rioted against, and bombed ? So I think I can safely say I speak from actual experience not informed opinion.

You can say they didn't shoot people in the back but I can tell you the IRA took every opportunity to shoot British Troops. Who can forget the TV footage of the young soldiers dragged from their car and murdered in cold blood?

Iam64

AmberSpyglass, the paramilitaries murdered, knee capped, behaved like the gangsters many of the still are. The army went in to attempt to save lives. Lives were lost on all sides.
Katie59, you know your brothers experience wasn’t isolated. Terrifying for everyone, including those young soldiers. It’s lazy and simplistic to absolve terrorists of responsibility for murder/torture/criminal behaviour and to refuse to allow men in their 70’s some peace.

Is there a way to do this? I’m not saying there isn’t but how could it happen? It almost seemed miraculous in South Africa what the Truth and Reconciliation Commission achieved. But that happened at the time - we’re now talking decades later. I still don’t understand why this latest trial ever happened - the issue of admissibility of the evidence must have been clear from the onset - the legal arguments were not complex in this case.

Nana I’m pretty sure a lot of the people in NI - not just the ones who experienced war crimes at the hands of British Troops - would speak from their actual experience.

The army should never have been there at all.

"It almost seemed miraculous in South Africa what the Truth and Reconciliation Commission achieved"

I seem to remember a cross party group from NI visiting SA to ask advice on the way to reconcile. They were told that the one thing they should do is integrate the schools.

Have they done that?

I read a survey of parents in NI who were asked whether they wanted their children to be able to attend integrated schools. Over 90% said yes, yet less than 10% have that opportunity.

AmbrrSpyglass, don’t suggest Bloody Sunday, or any other atrocity means nothing to me. You sit on your moral high ground. Leave the work towards peace and reconciliation to the courageous. Mo Moslem rip.

The army should never have been there at all.

Agreed

They should have been left to fight it out and if ethnic cleansing took place, at least our boys would not have been maimed or died.
That applies to Afghanistan, Iraq

varian

"It almost seemed miraculous in South Africa what the Truth and Reconciliation Commission achieved"

I seem to remember a cross party group from NI visiting SA to ask advice on the way to reconcile. They were told that the one thing they should do is integrate the schools.

Have they done that?

I read a survey of parents in NI who were asked whether they wanted their children to be able to attend integrated schools. Over 90% said yes, yet less than 10% have that opportunity.

Not sure South Africa is a good role model, how many white farmers have been murdered recently?

Perhaps GB shouldn't have started the Ulster Plantation/invaded Ireland etc then there would be no problems there at all.

If, if, if Loislovestewie but it happened. So did many other invasions, colonisation, slavery. We have to find a way forward without constantly looking back

Sorry I don’t mean we shouldn’t look back and learn from history.

The idea that all the British soldiers in NI behaved impeccably is wrong. A friend growing up there remembers being spat at by some on her way to school, she was a Catholic of course and theyknew from her uniform.
If soldiers are to be trusted to keep the peace anywhere they must be accountable. if they are not they put succeeding recruits in more danger.

Did anyone say they did behave impeccably? The ex military I’ve known with haven’t been very different from the lads drawn into gangs, groomed into paramilitary organisations

And for every story like that Trisher I can relate one I actually saw.

Take the time I watched 2 young boys drag a shovel round behind a wall and try to brain the last marine in a patrol ?

Or the ground glass in coffee offered to patrols?

Or the weapons hidden under an infant in a pray?

I’m not saying every soldier was perfect but I am saying there are 2 sides to every story.