I do wonder- is this what the Brexiters wanted?

Urmstongran

There was no need to peddle misinformation about the EU. There was enough verified evidence of corruption and ineptitude, lack of transparency, protectionism and flagrant cronyism plus unelected gravy boaters to convince me to vote OUT.
????
I’m delighted we’ve left.
So much so, I wish I could vote it again just for the sheer joy of that result!

I really didn't think you were quite so spiteful.

I must say hearing what happened to Farage this week cheered me up no end.

I did think afterwards; people shouldn't believe everything Farage told us....or wrote on his tie.

So no, I don't think it couldn't have been worse.

Alegrias1

At least when Boris quotes Latin it is actual Latin....

Not unlawful grinding stones

Nothing wrong with a bit of Dog Latin now and then, Alegrias1. Cheer up; peius esse potuit.

At least when Boris quotes Latin it is actual Latin....

Not unlawful grinding stones

You're on a roll, Urmnstogran. Illegitimi non carborundum!

We, personally, can go to the ballot box every 5y (or less) NS and vote the buggers out if we choose!

Which is defended at every turn because that's what everyone does apparently.

Oh urmstongran!
There was enough verified evidence of corruption and ineptitude, lack of transparency, protectionism and flagrant cronyism plus unelected gravy boaters
just like our government then!

There was no need to peddle misinformation about the EU. There was enough verified evidence of corruption and ineptitude, lack of transparency, protectionism and flagrant cronyism plus unelected gravy boaters to convince me to vote OUT.
????
I’m delighted we’ve left.
So much so, I wish I could vote it again just for the sheer joy of that result!

Varian - in my opinion you are right.
Those who peddled a lot of whinging and misinformation about the EU for forty years certainly have a lot to answer for.

The EU has been a convenient scapegoat for our UK government for so long.
Somewhere upthread I commented on the way we have claimed all the benefits/positives of EU membership to be our great government's doing and all the irritations/difficulties to be the responsibility of the EU.

Politicians of left and right have twisted the truth to fit this narrative and serve themselves short-term.

Ah yes! ??

Urmstongran
I remember a poster ( on this thread) asking you if you were going to be paying taxes in Spain because you had ‘over stayed’
Not your fault: covid restrictions.

Seems you can add the Gardia Civil in Spain to that last comment too Alegrias. They don’t mess about.

All countries have laws. The Sikhs ought not to have stayed beyond their visa permit. Then they wouldn’t be in this situation. They made a choice. But it was unlawful.

We either have laws or we may as well have none.

If only the world was as simple for everybody as you seem to think it is Urmstongran.

I don't care what language anybody, speaks, anywhere.

Yes Mr Sehdev and Mr Singh stayed after their Visas expired. And were trying to get them renewed. Yes, it's been 5 years.

I expect they will be deported. But they won't be taken out of their homes and loaded into vans without being able to say goodbye to the people who have helped them all these years, or putting their houses in order first.

Thank goodness there are still people who don't ascribe to the Priti Patel school of immigration control and the "hostile environment".

Since 2016? Trying to get your papers in order? Sorry but that just beggars belief Alegrias with today’s technology. The Spanish are giving those Brits abroad 15 DAYS to prove their residency status.

The Sikhs let their visas expire. Then didn’t renew them (maybe couldn’t?) so they just stayed? For years?

Yet on some of these Brexity threads, posters howl if they think anyone has stayed for then the 180 day rule.

And they do sneer on here about the elderly people who don’t speak ‘the language’. Or try to. But if you’re a Sikh, living in Glasgow, speaking Gujarati or whatever, that’s somehow different? I don’t see it. Sorry.

Let’s all just play fair is what I’m saying.

Oh, Urmstongran, so much to work with....right, here goes...

The Sikh men who came here 13 years ago did so under valid visas which have since expired. They didn't come illegally. They did not live illegally under the radar, that is completely wrong. At least one of the men, Lakhvir Singh, has been trying to get his visa renewed since 2016, so far with no success.

Maybe in the fullness of time they will be deported. But it is the view of their neighbours and representatives in Glasgow that they are contributing to the society they live in and should have their visas renewed. Even if they don't, it is not the actions of a fair society that people who are following the rules - which they were, despite your protestations to the contrary - should be loaded into vans and taken to deportation centres.

I don't care if they speak English, Scots or blooming Klingon, they're welcome here.

I am so proud of the people of Glasgow.

And sorry to repeat myself - ID cards, over my dead body.

I find it unbelievable.
We agree in ID cards? The Sikhs in Glasgow? The verbal scorn about pie & chips for elderly persons on the Costas?

Wonders never cease.
?

Did I? If so I truly apologise growstuff.
Did I honestly mock you too?
If so that was rude of me.

Anyway today these are my tightly held convictions!
??
I never claim to be consistent in my arguments.
It’s part of my charm I tell Himself!

A few days ago, you were denying what you are now admitting. You even mocked me for what I wrote.

Okay, I’ll bite.

Yes I agree with you those pensioners who live there permanently are immigrants. Or residents. The EU have their laws and we, as visitors, need to abide by them. Quite right too. A lot of people have kept themselves under the radar and the Spanish authorities, especially on the Costas, have looked the other way. Boom times, when the silver economy helped fuel the Spanish GDP.

Now all countries are tightening up. Governments want to be more aware of who is living in their midst (maybe terrorists) who is there who (post economic Covid disaster) ought to be paying taxes.

I think this is all right and proper.

It works both way though doesn’t it?

Those 2 Sikh men in Glasgow for instance, came to the UK illegally 10y ago. They lived under the radar. Worked in the local Sikh Centre. Didn’t speak English (after all that time to - so it’s not just the British living in enclaves of pie and chips with their Sangria) as they thanked the community through an interpreter for their support. Nice men. No doubt about that but the fact is, they didn’t go home when their visas expired all those years ago.

ID cards are coming. Most of Europe already have them, carry them and produce one if asked by the Police. Biometric checks on passports will flag up length of stay. Holiday sir or something more hmm?

Money (recouping of it post economic dive post Covid) will be the driving force of all this scrutiny.

I for one have no problem with it at all. 180 days +1 day and that will be the country you pax tax.

But as I say, it works BOTH ways! To be fair.

??

As for avoiding France to go to Spain! We started it, arresting EU travellers to uk, even with interview appointments- and now

londonlovesbusiness.com/elderly-british-expats-arrested-in-spain-and-police-warn-you-have-15-days-to-leave-in-crackdown/

Those who have fully integrated the Spanish system on time will be fine, but there are 1000s of others who will not be. Many of the pensioners and elderly, who will find it very difficult and basically lose everything.

BTW they are not 'expats' they are immigrants.

Mamie

It wasn't aimed at you Ellianne. ?
I don't think Juncker was the most diplomatic of diplomats ?, but some of it is in the reporting.

It wasn't aimed at you Ellianne. ?
I don't think Juncker was the most diplomatic of diplomats ?, but some of it is in the reporting.

All too often the blame for the inevitable consequences of Brexit is put on the EU, the French, Macron etc. That makes me cross.
Yes, Mamie, I put my hands up to being one who falls into that trap. Your voice of reason rightly pulls me up.

Looking back, however, if this is what we are supposed to do, the seeds of disharmony were apparent 6 or 7 years ago when Jean-Claude Juncker did little more than hurl insults at Cameron acting on behalf of Britain. I can't remember all his derogatory words, stuff like "it takes two to tango" but I am convinced he got many a British persons' backs up and things just escalated. If Cummings can manipulate public opinion, Juncker was equally responsible.
So, yes, the blame shouldn't be put on Macron or the French.