I do wonder- is this what the Brexiters wanted?

It’s very difficult for some people to return from Europe because their properties are worth a fraction of what it costs to buy a property in the U.K. This has happened to a friend of mine. And many of them weren’t even allowed to vote in the referendum either.

MaizieD

lemongrove

Good post Urmstongran truly.?
Kali you are in Switzerland I believe and you used to have a flat in the UK, or maybe you still have? Or am I mixing you up with another poster I wonder. I know there was a poster who used to go on and on about unfairness because of Brexit and how it had affected them financially, but this may not have been you.
Just remember that voting to leave the EU bloc was the right of every voter in the UK and there was more to think about with that decision than those who had chosen to live in another country.

Are you poised to restart the hate campaign, lemon?

You are, of course mistaken, both in your description of the former poster's circumstances and the identity of the one you were addressing here. But clearly ready for the off. Have you alerted the other pack members too?

Just unbelievable- what is going on here?

Lots of mixing up on this thread. The situation is totally different for those who moved to an EU country before 2021. But even for them - the assurance that they would be able to swap driving licences has turned out not to be true, and has left huge numbers totally isolated without transport, in often very rural regions without any public transport. And now finding that they have to retake licence in full, practical, theory and first aid, all in the local language at an age when such things are not easy at all.

And of course totally different for those who have been planning to move when they retire, have spent all their savings and time doing up a property to be able to do so- and knowing, at the time of planning and decision, that there would be no issue with permits, visas, driving licences, healthcare, etc. And now finding that they have spent all that time and money preparing for something they just won't be able to do now.

As for selling, either because they now can't go and retire when the time comes, or because they have to come back for the many reasons stated- then as another poster said - those properties are in rural areas and are worth very little, and are practically un-saleable. And properties in the UK, are worth much more, especially in some regions where they would like to return to be near families.

Kali2 are you fishing for information? I see you have started another thread under sponsored discussions!

Kali2 I see you have started another thread a sponsored discussion, are you just fishing for content for an article?

Apologies for double post I am having difficulties posting today!

MayBee70

It’s very difficult for some people to return from Europe because their properties are worth a fraction of what it costs to buy a property in the U.K. This has happened to a friend of mine. And many of them weren’t even allowed to vote in the referendum either.

Perhaps that's because of the type of properties some of them buy in the first place.
We have sold 3 properties in France within a month or two of advertising them.

And we didn't get any less than we paid for any of them.
They were discerning choices in the right locations to attract a buyer

Sarnia Now the immigrants have returned to their home countries - who is now picking the soft fruit, who is replacing thee nursing and care home staff? Not those Brits who claimed about these islands being overcrowded.

Ellianne

And we didn't get any less than we paid for any of them.
They were discerning choices in the right locations to attract a buyer

I am very happy for you. Most people who bought properties did not buy them with a commercial resale in mind. And they bought houses in places where they could afford, and that they liked- not for resale, but for them to live happily in retirement, where they could afford to. Your comment is very smug, if I may say.

Kali2 apologies, I have just seen the other discussion has been moved.

Dinahmo

Sarnia Now the immigrants have returned to their home countries - who is now picking the soft fruit, who is replacing thee nursing and care home staff? Not those Brits who claimed about these islands being overcrowded.

Exactly. There was a bit about this on Countryfile a couple of weeks ago. The poor grower was pulling his hair out because his Eastern European workforce have gone elsewhere. He advertised for pickers but the response was so poor, despite the unemployed figures going through the roof. Most of those who did turn up found the work too hard and left. He only had a handful of workers left at the end. It will mean crops not being picked and higher prices, I suppose.

With regard to crop picking I think it’s important to realise that the situation has developed over the years we have been in the EU.

When cheap temporary agricultural Labour became available many farm workers were made redundant. Profitable seasonal crops predominated that only required paying labour for a short time. Temporary workers were content to be accommodated in caravans and converted sheds in dormitories.

Farm work as a permanent job and a career disappeared. Farm cottages were sold off for weekenders.

This is why it is difficult to get agricultural workers now. People living here want a permanent job, to live with their families at home not in a dormitory. They will obviously prefer a job that gives them that.

As far as unemployment, there are all sorts of complications with loss of benefits if you take on temporary work.

It’s not as simple as nobody wants to do it.

Peasblossom The situation is bad enough for the authorities to allow people to keep their benefits whilst doing seasonal farm work and be paid. The farmer who I read about received very few takers, even in those circumstances.

At one time students would do fruit picking in the summer and they used to come to France in the autumn for the grape harvest. Conversely, we have a friend here who, when a student used to go to England during the summer holidays to pick fruit. Does that happen anymore?

I think you are quite right Peasblossom We are no more lazy as a nation than any other. There is nothing wrong with wanting a secure permanent job, to raise a family in security. We should not feel that anyone should be grateful to do any job, we should aspire to more than that for everyone.

I did fruit picking as a child. The families of the farm workers would earn extra money a busy times. A temporary workforce attached to the permanent one.

There is no permanent agricultural workforce now. There was no point paying someone for the whole year when you could get much cheaper Labour for just a few weeks. They have moved into towns because there is no cheap accommodation in the countryside any more. So you need a car to get to a farm for work which is not easy if you’re unemployed.

This is why rural areas were a big factor in vote leave. They saw none of the benefits of belonging to Europe.

People voted on whether their life was better or worse for them and their families.

I voted remain but I could see it coming because the remainers wouldn’t listen. They thought because it was working for them, it was good for everyone. A bit of understanding and support and things might have been different.

I agree with you again Peasblossom. I also voted to remain but not because I was a big fan of the EU, and I could see why people would resent it.
But, having said that I think now that leaving was a terrible mistake.

We lived in Germany and were obliged to take the German driving test, we bought a left hand drive car and soon became used to driving on the 'wrong' side of the road and also had German insurance.
Surely if you lived in Spain it would be part of integrating into your new life.

One of my nephews is a shepherd in Dunedin, New Zealand. He comes over to the UK to do sheep shearing once a year.
Just like crop picking, a lot of hands on labour is needed over a very short period. Luckily for him the summers in New Zealand are the reverse here, so it works well.

He advertised for pickers but the response was so poor, despite the unemployed figures going through the roof.

Isn't one of the problems, though, that a few months of temporary work plays havoc with getting back on to benefits once the seasonal work is over?

Did temporary workers replace full timers? I thought it was mechanisation that did that.

I come from Essex; lots of fruit farms 50 - 60 years ago. As I recall, it was full time housewives dong a bit of work for some extra money, I doubt if they were on benefits at all (though I might be wrong there) and students doing holiday jobs. They used to be collected by lorry and you'd see lorry loads of fruit pickers being taken to the farms. (Wouldn't be allowed now, of course)

Dinahmo just hypothetically speaking, and following on from Peasblossom, how would a Frexit referendum go down in the many rural areas of France I wonder?

A bit of understanding and support and things might have been different.

I see where you're coming from, Peasblossom, but I feel a contradiction in what you're saying. When the rural voters achieved what they wanted by voting for Brexit they still don't actually want the work. I think this is what people just don't understand.

The whole economics of farming changed. Most farms were mixed to a greater or lesser extent which provided enough variety to employ throughout the year.

But mixed didn’t pay as well as specialised seasonal crops so most conglomerate owned farms moved to that. So although mechanisation reduced the number of workers need it wasn’t that that prompted the move from permanent work to short term temporary. It was the type of crops that were grown that did that.

It’s a complex issue and I don’t feel I’m covering it very well. Change happens but it’s impact has to be recognised and affected communities supported through the transition if you want people to accept the transition.

That didn’t happen and Brexit was the result.

But it’s naive to expect agricultural workers to appear. It’s work that calls for an amazing amount of fitness and stamina. A bit like being expected to run a marathon without training.

What they hoped for Maizie was a return to agricultural work as a permanent job that would enable them to raise their families.

No they don’t really want twelve weeks of work at low pay because single accommodation in caravans is part of the deal.

It’s not a viable job.

It’s viable for migrant workers because

they moved around Europe in “gangs” from one seasonal crop to another

because accommodation and food was provided all their earnings, even if low, could be saved

Nanof3

We lived in Germany and were obliged to take the German driving test, we bought a left hand drive car and soon became used to driving on the 'wrong' side of the road and also had German insurance.
Surely if you lived in Spain it would be part of integrating into your new life.

This puzzles me. Ever since we have been part of the EU, we have been able to just swap driving licence during first year. So did you have UK driving licences? And why did you take the test instead of swapping as perfectly legal?

UK people who moved to Spain, or France or anywhere in the EU, were able to just swap, and vice-versa. They were also promised they would be able to continue to do so after Brexit- but the UK did not negotiate an agreement- leaving them stranded, and having to retake all 3 parts of the test in full, in the local language. Of course they have to have local car insurance (although, and I have NO sympathy with them)- many cheated and kept UK plates and insurance, illegally (as said NO sympathy with them).

BTW, nothing to do with me.