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Australian Beef - A huge threat to U.K. farmers

(329 Posts)
vegansrock Fri 21-May-21 06:55:19

The government are reportedly trying to push through a free trade deal with Australia. I wonder why. Some Australian beef farms are industrialised factories with over 400,000 cows fed on grain. Welfare standards are lower that the U.K. ( which aren’t actually that high), even with the cost ( the environmental cost not mentioned) of long distance transportation, our much smaller family run farms will not be able to compete, apart from supplying the smaller niche organic, and much more expensive, market. Farmers are worried this will be the thin end of the wedge that will finally kill them off, especially the smaller farms in Scotland and Wales. Is this just a cynical exercise to show that we don’t need the EU that will actually further damage our economy and come at a great environmental and animal welfare cost?

Kali2 Sat 22-May-21 20:30:25

Do you believer mulesing is right? Have you taken the time to watch some videos on the 'technique'- do you have any idea why this is NOT done in the UK, or anywhere in Europe either? Those lambs must wish they would be put in a coma first, for sure.

Gove promised very recently on Countryfile, for all to see

“Ultimately, if you have high standards here and then you allow food in from elsewhere, you’re not really contributing to animal welfare or higher environmental standards, you’re simply offshoring those low standards, and that’s wrong.”

MaizieD Sat 22-May-21 20:26:13

Urmstongran

Mulesing - oh not THIS again.

‘Just put me in a coma now’.

With pleasure, Ug

Or you could go and talk some fluffy stuff on 'Chat'. No-one is stopping you leaving.

Urmstongran Sat 22-May-21 20:18:40

Kali2 and MaizieD you should take up tag wrestling you’d be good at it.
?

Urmstongran Sat 22-May-21 20:17:07

Mulesing - oh not THIS again.

‘Just put me in a coma now’.

MaizieD Sat 22-May-21 20:17:00

Callistemon

Kali2

Exactly, which is why we want to make sure our local farms survive- and that we can keep an eye and know what happens here. And not destroy it and allow imports from so far away- where we can't, and where growth hormones and antibiotics can be fed to them, and where awful practices as described above do not happen.

^where awful practices as described above do not happen.

Mulesing may be carried out on Merino sheep. The alternative is worse.
Merino sheep are farmed for their fleeces.
Do you wear wool garments?
Or do you wear ecologically harmful acrylic?
Have you seen a sheep die from fly strike?
Have you ever been to an Australian cattle or sheep station?

And castration and tail cropping without anaesthetic, Callistomen Can you justify them, too?

Callistemon Sat 22-May-21 20:09:45

Kali2

Exactly, which is why we want to make sure our local farms survive- and that we can keep an eye and know what happens here. And not destroy it and allow imports from so far away- where we can't, and where growth hormones and antibiotics can be fed to them, and where awful practices as described above do not happen.

^where awful practices as described above do not happen.

Mulesing may be carried out on Merino sheep. The alternative is worse.
Merino sheep are farmed for their fleeces.
Do you wear wool garments?
Or do you wear ecologically harmful acrylic?
Have you seen a sheep die from fly strike?
Have you ever been to an Australian cattle or sheep station?

Callistemon Sat 22-May-21 20:01:56

Sheepandcattle
Thanks.

I have seen photos of animals being "released" from their extensive pastures in Australia only to be mauled and perhaps killed by dingoes or mauled and left to die.

Kali2 Sat 22-May-21 20:01:37

Mulesing - just awful.

Kali2 Sat 22-May-21 20:00:51

Exactly, which is why we want to make sure our local farms survive- and that we can keep an eye and know what happens here. And not destroy it and allow imports from so far away- where we can't, and where growth hormones and antibiotics can be fed to them, and where awful practices as described above do not happen.

Urmstongran Sat 22-May-21 19:43:55

The voice of reason Sheepandcattle thank you for your post. It’s good to have an informed debate on a topic.

Sheepandcattle Sat 22-May-21 19:38:08

vegansrock

There certainly are farms in the U.K. which do not meet legal welfare standards, there are animal organisations which have video evidence, as well as in abbatoirs where there are some disgusting practices- animals kicked and tormented, cows having their tails cut with bolt cutters to make them move along the kill line - No one is ever prosecuted as it would damage the industry too much.

(I am only giving my knowledge of beef and sheep farming- I have no experience of poultry or pigs)
Farms that do not meet welfare standards would be very much the minority, the same as it is the minority of people who are cruel to their pets. Antis have an agenda which is to show the worst possible situations and then to try to tarnish the whole of the farming industry.
When I take my lambs to the abattoir there are signs on the unloading bay to say that voices mustn’t be raised, animals mustn’t be prodded or manhandled and the animals must be moved in a manner that doesn’t cause unnecessary stress. There are cctv cameras everywhere and there is always a vet on site. We are able to book tours to watch the whole slaughter process (I haven’t, but other farmers I have spoken to have and have been impressed at the professionalism of the workers involved and the calmness of the livestock). One study measured the heart rate of the lambs on the conveyor and it was the same as a lamb resting. Abattoirs nowadays are extremely highly regulated with very complex legislation. This has resulted in many, many smaller abattoirs having to close which is a positive move in many respects but it does result in there being far fewer abattoirs and therefore animals have to, in general, travel further. (Transportation of livestock also has very stringent regulations regarding animal welfare standards). Videos ( often highly edited) posted by antis tend to be ‘backstreet, unregulated slaughter houses - not the norm by any means.

lemongrove Sat 22-May-21 19:00:38

Which farms vegansrock ?
UK animal ( farm) welfare is very high.Exactly what Katie say above.

Katie59 Sat 22-May-21 18:49:30

vegansrock

There certainly are farms in the U.K. which do not meet legal welfare standards, there are animal organisations which have video evidence, as well as in abbatoirs where there are some disgusting practices- animals kicked and tormented, cows having their tails cut with bolt cutters to make them move along the kill line - No one is ever prosecuted as it would damage the industry too much.

Those caught breaking welfare standards do get prosecuted, more importantly if you loose your assured certification you can’t sell your produce. Or if the supermarket you are supplying get a complaint you will loose the contract and quite likely put you out of business.
OK farmers aren’t perfect but only fools break the rules, even failing to record movements or treatments is a serious issue.

vegansrock Sat 22-May-21 17:40:50

There certainly are farms in the U.K. which do not meet legal welfare standards, there are animal organisations which have video evidence, as well as in abbatoirs where there are some disgusting practices- animals kicked and tormented, cows having their tails cut with bolt cutters to make them move along the kill line - No one is ever prosecuted as it would damage the industry too much.

Callistemon Sat 22-May-21 14:47:11

I'm not sure why EU meat standards are considered to be superior to those of NZ and Australia - factory farmed Danish bacon anyone?

However, because UK food standards are higher than those of Denmark pigs for the UK market were reared separately to a UK specification

UK Investigators from Compassion in World Farming found 80 per cent of farms across five European countries engaging in illegal practices such as barren pens and routine tail-docking.

Jumblygran Sat 22-May-21 14:47:05

Yes Grannygravy that is true as both send meat to the Muslim countries. The animals are stunned first and then killed by halal methods therefore they feel no pain.

GrannyGravy13 Sat 22-May-21 14:40:54

All Australian Beef and Lamb is Halal as is all New Zealand Lamb according to several Google sites.

Callistemon Sat 22-May-21 14:37:48

Not sure where you are getting you information from.
Me neither, Jumblygran

People who've never been to Australia and NZ perhaps?

Kali2 Sat 22-May-21 14:28:09

Totally agree- for me a British aged rib is the best food ever.

EllanVannin Sat 22-May-21 12:49:41

You won't get any nice dripping from Aussie beef and that to me isn't natural. You shouldn't have to add fat when cooking decent beef.
A good piece of rib beef is the tastiest you can get and will leave enough for dripping toast for breakfast.grin
Fillet is delicious. but the flavour isn't there because there's no fat.

Kali2 Sat 22-May-21 12:40:02

I think it was fair to include sheep farming in this thread, as it is just as threatened by current negotitions with OZ, and possibly NZ.

Kali2 Sat 22-May-21 12:39:10

Weirder and weirder.

Must say I had never heard about it either, and was extrememely shocked by the photos- and got the spelling wrong.

MawBe Sat 22-May-21 12:36:35

Muesli - as you clearly didn’t get it ! grin

MaizieD Sat 22-May-21 12:26:06

MawBe

^it was obvious what she was talking about, MawB, as we were discussing cattle. But people leapt to the attack before she had a chance to correct her typo^

I wasn’t aware that anybody “leapt” to anything, MaizieD - I asked a perfectly reasonable question in an equally reasonable way.

Ever heard of museling?
No, Kali2 - what does that mean?

confusedconfused

Oh, sorry. The reference to 'Swiss breakfast' was completely insignificant too, I suppose...

MawBe Sat 22-May-21 11:25:23

it was obvious what she was talking about, MawB, as we were discussing cattle. But people leapt to the attack before she had a chance to correct her typo

I wasn’t aware that anybody “leapt” to anything, MaizieD - I asked a perfectly reasonable question in an equally reasonable way.

Ever heard of museling?
No, Kali2 - what does that mean?

confusedconfused