Political implications of Johnson's Catholicisim

Marydoll

Me too, Callistemon, which is why I found this comment: For example, what if he orchestrated that only Roman Catholics could run for selection, got a massive majority and then implemented policies like doing away with divorce, contraception, abortions, education of women etc a little bit unsettling. Is that how some posters perceive Catholics?

Is that how some posters perceive Catholics?
Or Prime Ministers?
Or how our Constitutional Monarchy works?

So far as the Catholic Church is concerned, Boris was baptised a Catholic and thus is still a Catholic. His first two marriages in the Anglican Church do not count in the eyes of the Catholic Church. Carrie is a Catholic - Boris would not have been able to marry in a Catholic church if he had previously had a Catholic marriage, they do not marry divorcees although an individual priest may choose to give the couple a blessing. I do not understand why all this is such a big deal but some people are spouting nonsense. My husband and I are atheists and married in a registry office as we did not want to be hypocritical but I do not comment on the choices of others - that is between them and their god, if they have one.

Marydoll, you can relax. I am not anti-Catholic, merely used that scenario as a means of showing how extreme religious views held by people in power can affect policies. I grew up in the North of Ireland where I saw both sides of the extremist debate, and its effects, first hand. As such I am not a fan of organised religion. It cannot be denied though that people have suffered and continue to suffer because the religious beliefs of powerful leaders in different parts of the world are imposed on the population. I used the Roman Catholic Faith here because that is the religion we were discussing in the PM's case. I was pleased to see that GB righted a wrong regarding Roman Catholics becoming PM. I use the full term Roman Catholic because all Christians are members of the Catholic (Universal) Church. I apologise if I caused you all angst. It was not my intention. Your criticism of my posts does however show how divisive religion can be and how misunderstandings can arise.

Your post did not cause me angst, just added to my annoyance. It was the tone of some of the posts and as I previously said, the half baked facts about Catholicism, posted on this thread, which upset me.

Living in the West of Scotland, I am familiar with sectarianism. We had to sell our house because, our once friendly neighbour, made our life a living hell, once he found out we were Roman Catholics. I have never forgotten those terrible days, when I had a new baby and a toddler to cope with, which caused me to have a breakdown. I have never experienced such hatred. I was terrified to leave the house. It got so bad, the police were involved.

For that reason, I was heavily involved in anti sectarianism projects and have brought my children to respect everyone.
No-one in this country should have to experience what we experienced. My son married a non Catholic, whom we welcomed into our family with open arms. My other son won't be getting married in a Catholic church. I respect all religions, so should others.

Devorgilla, I hope you will understand that you touch a raw nerve. I apologise if I misunderstood your post, it's all about perception and the perils of not actually having a discussion, face to face. PAX!

Kali2

Would be interesting to know what Poot, Paisley and Forster feel about this in NI ?

Whyever?

Arlene Foster no longer leads the DUP - (keep up at the back!)

Did you mean Edwin Poots ?
I am even less likely to want to hear his opinion
On the election of Poots^‘If you are gay or a woman, be worried’ – NI community worker
And Ian Paisley Jr is hardly a paragon of virtue
MPs voted to suspend Paisley from the House of Commons for 30 sitting days, beginning on 4 September 2018, because he broke paid advocacy rules by receiving hospitality from the Sri Lankan government without declaring that to the Commons. Following his suspension, the Recall of MPs Act 2015 was invoked for the first time since it received Royal Assent

Marydoll, I can understand from your experience in Scotland why you would be upset by my post. I am aware of the sectarianism in Scotland too as my grandmother and father were Scottish and I spent many holidays over there. Indeed, once they moved to Ireland, I only remember them attending Church very infrequently. My mother too, raised by a very religious mother, had no time for organised religion. She resented men telling women what they could and could not do, and that came from both bodies of the Christian faith in Ireland. I used the issues I mentioned because in Ireland, both North and South, they were contentious ones as I grew up. Some still apply today - witness the stance in NI taken on abortion. When I included education of women I was thinking more of extreme Islam but should not have mixed, at least in my own mind, different religions in my argument. I do remember though, teachers of both sides giving the distinct impression that women were educated to educate and rear children better and not as a right in their own advancement. Another belief my mother taught us to reject. I am glad we have made our peace with one another.

Devorgilla, me too! It's such an emotive topic for me, the thread brought bac some unhappy memories. I detest discrimination of any kind.
I hope the next time we meet, it will be on a happier note.

I really need to leave this thread now, I haven't even started dinner! Now there is another contentious topic, women and their role in society!

Boris is NOT a Catholic. He was once but converted to become an Anglican awhile back.

GandT

Boris is NOT a Catholic. He was once but converted to become an Anglican awhile back.

Couldn't he have changed his mind again?

PippaZ

GandT

Boris is NOT a Catholic. He was once but converted to become an Anglican awhile back.

Couldn't he have changed his mind again?

We are all aware that Johnson will declare black is white if it suits the Johnson agenda.

Who really cares anyway?

There are an awful lot of people in this country who are non-believers where religion is concerned. I appreciate that 1000s of years ago everyone believed but these days kids in school are taught about the theory of evolution which actually can provide proof of how humans evolved, hence my conversion from a christened and confirmed Anglican to an uncompromising Atheist.

most mainstream christian churches have no problem with evolution, eg, Anglican, RC, Methodist, Presbyterian.
so i think that is setting up a false polarity.
but if course you are free to align yourself however you choose.

Nannan2

Maddyone- the law that makes the child/ren legitimate is when the parents then go on to marry.It doesn't matter whether its in a church, or just by registrar.But the child then is legitimate.

that is misleading, because as Maddyone has tried to explain, there is no such thing as illegitimate children now.
the only exception, and even then that term is not used, is for inherited titles/lands among the aristocracy.
i remember seeing on tv where a countess type was v upset that their adopted child could never succeed to the title, by law.

MawBe

Kali2

Would be interesting to know what Poot, Paisley and Forster feel about this in NI ?

Whyever?

Arlene Foster no longer leads the DUP - (keep up at the back!)

Did you mean Edwin Poots ?
I am even less likely to want to hear his opinion
On the election of Poots^‘If you are gay or a woman, be worried’ – NI community worker
And Ian Paisley Jr is hardly a paragon of virtue
^MPs voted to suspend Paisley from the House of Commons for 30 sitting days, beginning on 4 September 2018, because he broke paid advocacy rules by receiving hospitality from the Sri Lankan government without declaring that to the Commons. Following his suspension, the Recall of MPs Act 2015 was invoked for the first time since it received Royal Assent^

Yes, Poots- was not able to edit. As for the blessed Arlene- she still has massive influence in the Protestant community in NI- and she is the one who 'worked' the longest with Johnson. I am sure she has an opinion on the matter. Whether Paisley is a paragon of virtue makes absolutely no difference in this instance.

I see there have been huge numbers of complaints, both from Catholics all around the country, and also from the regulars at Westminster Cathedral.

As far is Johnson is concerned, yes, as a private individual I would not give a hoot (even if I felt sorry for all those who have been denied a second marriage and who are sincere, practising Catholics who were very unlucky with their first mariage).

but because he is our PM, and because he lies constantly and has no respect for anyone or any institutions, and jumps from ship to ship as it suits him, then yes, it does matter.

Anyone who denies that the Church of England has a very special, and closely linked relationship, with the British Crown and Government- truly needs to go back to their history books.

Harmonypuss

Who really cares anyway?

There are an awful lot of people in this country who are non-believers where religion is concerned. I appreciate that 1000s of years ago everyone believed but these days kids in school are taught about the theory of evolution which actually can provide proof of how humans evolved, hence my conversion from a christened and confirmed Anglican to an uncompromising Atheist.

Less and less according to official Statistics.

There is a great way to make sure, introduce a Church Tax, where citizens who declare being of one Faith or other, have to pay 2 to 5 % of their income to said Church. That would soon sort the sincere sheep from the (hypocritical) goats.

What worries me is not the political view but the religious. I am not a Catholic but a great friend was. She was in a highly abusive marriage, and eventually fled, losing her parents and siblings in the process. 15 years later after an abusive court divorce - she met and fell in love with her soulmate. He was also a Catholic and both visited the local priest to request marriage. He was hurtful, dismissive and verbally abusive to my friend, to the point her future husband told the priest he thought little of his attitude, and that he wouldn't set foot in a Catholic church again. Even as they left the priest claimed my friend 'had distorted the mind of a GOOD Catholic'

They married in a Registry Office and had a 30 year marriage before she tragically died. So why friends and I ask is Boris Johnson, a divorcee (with no annulment), who admits multiple affairs, while refusing to number or name his children; allowed to marry in a Catholic Cathedral?

Many wonder why religion is losing its importance and following - because the rules apply to some not all, and others ride slipshod over religious belief to gain a 'church' marriage. I am actually glad my dear friend is no longer here to see the complete disregard the Catholic Church has shown to the rules which caused both my dear friends such misery.

I'm being very petty now but it's Register Office, not Registry.

That aside, there has been umpteen posts explaining how Boris was able to marry in church.

well it used to be
Registrar's Office,
but who knows now.

Kali, what is the point you are trying to make with your oft-repeated assertion about the role and influence of the Church of England on the governance/constitution of the Uk.
as for your idea of church tax, that is a complete non-starter. we are not germany or other countries ?switzerland where this applies, basically because we have a completely different history.
it would be unthinkable here. not just because few people are religious. it is more fundamental than that; related to the elizabethan settlement.
it is similar to why we do not have ID cards, and why traditionally the idea has been unacceptable.
but why are you so energised about all this, church and state, if you do not live in uk, and are not religious. ?

Where on earth did I state that I don't live in the UK? Where? This is becoming an obsession bordering on bullying.

You comment is interesting- on the one hand, you state that British history is very different to that of other countries, from Tudor/Elizabethan times. Then that it does not matter. So does it matter, or does it not?

I am fully aware there is no Church Tax in the UK, doh! But what I said, is that if it was introduced- it would very quickly sort out those who are truly religious, and those for whom it is just a word linked to tradition and no more- apart from the odd wedding, funeral and access to some schools.

PippaZ

GandT

Boris is NOT a Catholic. He was once but converted to become an Anglican awhile back.

Couldn't he have changed his mind again?

A baby can't choose its religion; the parents may choose for it.

I assume Boris is still a member of the C of E.

Kali, it was mentioned somewhere that you live in switzerland, so i assumed that you did.
i can't see how that is bullying.
a simple error/ misinformation.
if you live in uk then you must be well aware that a church tax would never be introduced here.
i still can't quite understand what is the main thrust of your argument.

if you live in uk then you must be well aware that a church tax would never be introduced here.

I don't think it would either.
There are, however, some ancient legal clauses in some house deeds where the householder could find themselves liable to pay for the upkeep of the parish church and other buildings. It happened to a friend of ours.
Many years ago our local C of E vicar decided that members of the congregation should tithe part of their salary (one tenth) to the church funds instead of putting money into the collection. I think they wanted to build a new vicarage. The existing vicarage was not large enough apparently. That was when my DF, a recent convert to the C of E, decided he just might not attend any more.

Was Kali2 actually being serious though when she suggested a church tax? I took it that she was being funny and just joking! It's too ridiculous a suggestion to be taken seriously.