Protest section 4 Police Bill.

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And so it continues.
Police need to take action against criminals whatever race they belong to.
This was proven with the murder of PC Harper, Police certainly intervened then, as they should. Why they won't act to prosecute the mess makers I don't know.

I take your point Chestnut but if the person across the street from you was a criminal should we assume you are the same, after all, you live in a house. Should I fear that you are a criminal too.

I would love to take my grandchild (when a little older) on our ancestors route, stopping at the same/ similar places. Visiting the graves in so many little country churches across England and Wales.
I daren't for fear of racial attack, the awful things painted on our vans and waggons, some very old vehicles. Our horses scared by idiots on the road shouting obscenities and peeping their horns.
Our vans set on fire whilst people are in them.
Yet travellers are supposed to be the problem.
I hope the Human Rights Act will be able to come into play here, especially article 8, but others too.

Unfortunately when the caravans pull up the locals have no idea which travelling community has arrived or whether they are criminals or not. People living in houses are normally surrounded by the same residents, they don't get a large number of new people arriving all at the same time. The arrival of a large group of caravans can seem threatening if the intentions of the travellers is not known.

Katie59

In rural areas illegal activity by travellers is a big issue, almost every business and a lot of private houses have had breakins. It’s nothing at all to do with racism or ethnic cleansing, it’s the cost replacing property lost and repairing damage done.

The police know exactly who is responsible, proscecuting them is very difficult because the traveler community will not give the police any information. A carpenter friend had his workshop raided, loosing around £5000 worth of tools, security cameras recorded the vehicle registration. That was stolen, next day that was found at the traveller site, nobody knew who owned it, but of course everybody had had a good look at it.
Result vehicle retrieved, no tools, no prosecution, this is what the police are up against, the whole community operate together and are complicit in crime.

The solution is to allow travellers to follow their lifestyle but only on properly regulated sites, we do actually have one council run site with a warden, that is not a problem. Of course the criminals don’t want to stay there.

Yes, good post.We live in a rural area that has seen crime from certain travellers skyrocket over the years.Local police know how hard it is to go into sites for arrests.Only fairly recently a young local policeman was dragged to his awful death behind a car driven at high speeds by traveller teenagers out stealing quad bikes who didn’t care what was happening as long as they got away.
We know that many sites house slave labour, usually men with learning difficulties or homeless, as they are sometimes ‘busted’ by police.
I don’t think there is racism, as they are the same race as us in the main.

Chestnut

We can all agree there are good and bad people on both sides. Criminals, fly tippers and litter louts are scumbags whatever their race, so no this is not about racism as some people have been so quick to shout.
romaroot said Until society is educated so as not to fear us, and we are educated not to fear non travellers nothing will improve.
But the criminal travellers by their actions have been educating communities to fear them, so how can these communities learn to trust people they know will rob and steal from them?

I don't know any travellers who have committed these crimes.
I'm obviously not saying it doesn't exist.
As it does in all communities.
But once again should two distinct races have to pay the price for others wrong doing. Should all white people be treated like criminals because some of them are.
This is nothing but racism, please open your eyes.

We can all agree there are good and bad people on both sides. Criminals, fly tippers and litter louts are scumbags whatever their race, so no this is not about racism as some people have been so quick to shout.
romaroot said Until society is educated so as not to fear us, and we are educated not to fear non travellers nothing will improve.
But the criminal travellers by their actions have been educating communities to fear them, so how can these communities learn to trust people they know will rob and steal from them?

I really am flabbergasted.

Is that you Lee Anderson?

romaroot
By your username I guess you are Romany descent, it not the romanies that cause the problems, nor is it travellers that have a horse drawn barrel wagon and a few ponies, they just get on with their way of life without bothering anyone.

I’m surprised you say all they want is a permanent home, they can go on the housing list like anyone else if they want to settle and some do just that. Its the closed sites that are used as a cover for illegal activity that need stopping

Long before Captain Tom and all the other fund raisers a little traveller girl raised 31k for organising a countrywide pieinyourface. It was one of those nomination fb campaigns, everyone joined in.

Also, the traveller boodbank challenge where every year we fill an extra trolley of food to donate to the food bank, most of us do this, too. You take your photo upload to fb and challenge 4 members of your family.

Just info how we belong in wider society.

It's a very complex situation.
Until society is educated so as not to fear us, and we are educated not to fear non travellers nothing will improve.
Of course some people leave a mess and I don't condone it for any minute.
However, we didn't see people fined for messing up the beaches, or them having the threat of losing their home. In fact, nothing was done.
The neighbours of those responsible weren't threatened with a law to make living in a house a crime.
It's absolutely unimaginable when you make such comparisons.
I have no idea who those people are anymore than I know which travellers leave a mess.
I do know the majority just want a permanant site to call home so their children can have a decent education and the only space available being a transit site.
There are thousands on waiting lists the same as many non travellers waiting for council houses.
The last ethnic cleansing (and it was) were the hundreds evicted from the forests, land given to us by Royalty. We were promised sites and then central gov passed the buck to local gov who in the main refused to make provision.
My parents lived in the forest and after eviction moved northwards to Cheshire, where I was born.

An example of Travellers making a positive contribution:
www.travellerstimes.org.uk/news/2021/05/rosie-amazing-coloured-pony-raises-10k-nhs

I was picture editor on this magazine, some years ago now.

You beat me to it MerylStreep I was a post similar.

There are good and bad in all communities.

Having experienced the best and the worst from the traveler community I really don’t know where I stand.

How is telling a person from a particular ethnic background that they should educate "their people" not racist?

Like I said, you don't even know you're doing it,

In rural areas illegal activity by travellers is a big issue, almost every business and a lot of private houses have had breakins. It’s nothing at all to do with racism or ethnic cleansing, it’s the cost replacing property lost and repairing damage done.

The police know exactly who is responsible, proscecuting them is very difficult because the traveler community will not give the police any information. A carpenter friend had his workshop raided, loosing around £5000 worth of tools, security cameras recorded the vehicle registration. That was stolen, next day that was found at the traveller site, nobody knew who owned it, but of course everybody had had a good look at it.
Result vehicle retrieved, no tools, no prosecution, this is what the police are up against, the whole community operate together and are complicit in crime.

The solution is to allow travellers to follow their lifestyle but only on properly regulated sites, we do actually have one council run site with a warden, that is not a problem. Of course the criminals don’t want to stay there.

He has the backing of his constituents so don’t expect a resignation.

I just did Avalon25

I hope he resigns for it, but I don't expect he will.

I’m sorry you have come up against some awful attitudes and prejudice in this thread romaroot

We had some travellers set up on the car park of an empty building near our house some years ago. People were wary and worried about having ‘those sort’ near them. There was no increase in crime and they moved on after a couple of weeks. There was more trouble from youths from a nearby estate breaking windows on the empty building, climbing in, smoking pot, starting a fire, etc. The building is now occupied and has security gates so it’s never happened again.

Just read what Lee Anderson had to say.

I moved ten years ago onto a new estate which had been built next to a long-established traveller site. A dozen pitches were permanent and there was an adjacent field for family visitors and the horses.

The people living there were very much part of the Community who had lived in the area for generations and the visitors coming and going were pretty unobtrusive really.

It was next to a builders yard that didn’t worry too much about security because the traveller site kept an eye on it and everyone knew that.

I had a good friendship with one of the grandads. We bonded over the Spring foals ?

In contrast, some people living on the Estate caused endless problems with dilapidation of the new housing, litter and police presence.

I had a post written for this thread this morning, but decided against it. But here I am anyway...

romaroot came on to give us a chance to understand the issues facing Travellers in Britain today. But we've had the usual accusations of thieving, being dirty, law breaking, all the rest of it. Even a suggestion that romaroot, along with her fellow Travellers, was responsible for stopping the illegal actions of people she doesn't even know, and that she doesn't know what ethnic cleansing means.

Its racism, and you don't even know it.

I agree there should be many more legal sites like this, but I guess some of them won't want to live under site rules and regulations.
www.teignhousing.co.uk/neighbourhood/travellers-site/

Luckygirl Spot on!
I agree there are two sides to every story, but there is now a huge element of illegal activity within the travelling community which makes them very unwelcome wherever they go. If they (all of them) could learn to live within the law of the land, dispose of their rubbish legally, and return to seasonal work instead of thieving then we would all get on much better.

What a thorny problem this is.

I worked alongside Travellers for many years and came to the conclusion that they are basically no different from the rest of us. There were wonderful people who I was glad to count as friends and dreadful people who I kept clear of......just the same as the settled population.

I saw the best of their culture: strong family ties and loyalties, charitable giving and organising of charity events, kindness, adherence to Christian values (there is a strong Christian element in Traveller communities).

I saw the worst too: stifling of girls' life opportunities (although this is changing gradually), leaving sites in a mess, settling arguments with fists rather than negotiation.

As Travellers are so visible - and in the main we cannot understand their desire to live on the move - any unacceptable behaviour gets highlighted and sticks out like a sore thumb. It used to be this way with black people.

There are without doubt Travellers whose behaviour is entirely unacceptable; but we do not hear about those who live decent law-abiding lives - they do not get the same level of publicity. So I am trying to redress the balance a bit here. I in no way condone the bad behaviour, but I know that there is another side too.

There is a historical element here. Travellers used to be accepted in communities and valued for their seasonal work on the land. There were changes in the law (Maggie Thatcher's time I think) that meant that the traditional places where they used to stay were closed to them. A raft of problems followed on from this, and we began to see illegal encampments and all the difficulties that they bring.

It is also important to know that Travellers are not one entity: there are many different traditions within their number.

Anyone who has lived next to a traveler site has no sympathy towards them, we have 3 in a 10 mile radius, all the rural properties have electric gates and ditches to prevent breakins.
All these sites are “no go” areas for the police, if they do have to enter it is with an armed response unit. Then they can retrieve property previously stolen, surprise surprise nobody knows or have seen anything. Their culture is based on thieving, otherwise why would the isolate themselves in that way, other minorities don’t live in that way. The problems have got worse in the last 10 yrs because the Irish government clamped down on traveller activity and they moved over here.

It’s not the travelling lifestyle that is the problem, if they lived in open sites and stopped thieving there would be no issue.