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The Irish Question revisited

(254 Posts)
varian Wed 09-Jun-21 19:39:28

Brexit minister accuses EU of 'legal purism' over NI Protocol

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57378954

Presumable "legal purism" means keeping to your word and not reneging on a legal agreement you recently negotiated and signed.

The fact is that it was always going to be impossible to abide by the Good Friday Agreement and not have a border on the island of Ireland, whilst the Republic of Ireland remained in the EU but the UK left the EU and the Single Market, without having a border somewhere and if that border is not on the island of Ireland it has to be in the Irish Sea.

Many of us foresaw problems in NI because of Brexit years ago. Why could the Vote Leave Tory Government and the DUP not see what was blindingly obvious to us?

www.gransnet.com/forums/news_and_politics/1242729-The-Irish-question?pg=22

theworriedwell Thu 10-Jun-21 09:00:53

MaizieD

If we put ourselves in a position where we are desperate for a trade deal with the US then we grovel to them.

I really don't understand why the people who voted to cut the UK adrift from its biggest trading partner and elected the world's foremost narcissistic liar to do the job are complaining. They are getting what they voted for. A diminished and demeaned country.

Shame for the rest of us though.

MaizieD Thu 10-Jun-21 09:11:32

Sadly, I don't think Johnson will give a toss. He is profoundly indifferent to the global status of the UK and its standing in the international community.

He's revelling in being cock of the walk on the dung hill he has created.

As long as the money rolls in from sympathetic donors and he has free access to private jets, luxury holidays, top of the range takeaways, designer flat makeovers etc. he will put two fingers up to the rest of the world.

theworriedwell Thu 10-Jun-21 09:12:53

MaizieD

Sadly, I don't think Johnson will give a toss. He is profoundly indifferent to the global status of the UK and its standing in the international community.

He's revelling in being cock of the walk on the dung hill he has created.

As long as the money rolls in from sympathetic donors and he has free access to private jets, luxury holidays, top of the range takeaways, designer flat makeovers etc. he will put two fingers up to the rest of the world.

Well that sums it up neatly. How depressing.

MaizieD Thu 10-Jun-21 09:15:30

theworriedwell

MaizieD

If we put ourselves in a position where we are desperate for a trade deal with the US then we grovel to them.

I really don't understand why the people who voted to cut the UK adrift from its biggest trading partner and elected the world's foremost narcissistic liar to do the job are complaining. They are getting what they voted for. A diminished and demeaned country.

Shame for the rest of us though.

It's our punishment for being filthy unpatriotic Remainers who are unable to believe in unicorns and sunny uplands.

Lin52 Thu 10-Jun-21 09:20:26

theworriedwell

MaizieD

If we put ourselves in a position where we are desperate for a trade deal with the US then we grovel to them.

I really don't understand why the people who voted to cut the UK adrift from its biggest trading partner and elected the world's foremost narcissistic liar to do the job are complaining. They are getting what they voted for. A diminished and demeaned country.

Shame for the rest of us though.

Perhaps the lovers of the EU should read this, very interesting how we were, with the collusion of the USA, taken into a Federalistic Europe by Heath. Evidence taken from public records. www.amazon.co.uk/EU-Corporatist-European-Created-Corporatism/dp/0956981585?tag=gransnetforum-21
I voted no in both referendums.

Whitewavemark2 Thu 10-Jun-21 09:21:54

MaizieD

Sadly, I don't think Johnson will give a toss. He is profoundly indifferent to the global status of the UK and its standing in the international community.

He's revelling in being cock of the walk on the dung hill he has created.

As long as the money rolls in from sympathetic donors and he has free access to private jets, luxury holidays, top of the range takeaways, designer flat makeovers etc. he will put two fingers up to the rest of the world.

Are you sure that you are talking about a British prime minister?

That description sounds exactly like a tinpot dictator,

Whitewavemark2 Thu 10-Jun-21 09:24:37

Blimey lin52 I have trouble keeping up with the links but a whole book 😄😄

Could you not give a quick run down?

Urmstongran Thu 10-Jun-21 09:25:40

When the agreement was signed, all parties committed to good faith and flexibility. The EU have rowed back on this promise. Most notably when they triggered A16 and imposed a unilateral hard border on the island of Ireland as part of their vaccine nationalism programme. Peace be damned when it doesn’t suit the EU. Bunch of charlatans if you ask me.

Whitewavemark2 Thu 10-Jun-21 09:37:16

Urmstongran

When the agreement was signed, all parties committed to good faith and flexibility. The EU have rowed back on this promise. Most notably when they triggered A16 and imposed a unilateral hard border on the island of Ireland as part of their vaccine nationalism programme. Peace be damned when it doesn’t suit the EU. Bunch of charlatans if you ask me.

They did because they can..

Like the USA the EU is an enormous economic block, and you can shout and squeal all you like, we are the underdogs in this quarrel and if the EU chooses to impose rules they can, as will the USA when we come to a trade deal with them.

Whitewavemark2 Thu 10-Jun-21 09:38:18

Remember you voted for exactly this situation, and should be welcoming our sovereignty to choose to be pushed around.

GrannyGravy13 Thu 10-Jun-21 09:41:13

Whitewavemark2

Remember you voted for exactly this situation, and should be welcoming our sovereignty to choose to be pushed around.

Your support of what basically amounts to bullying is astounding!!!!!

I assume you also support bullying in the workplace and within the school system?

Dryginger Thu 10-Jun-21 09:50:19

Well said GrannyGravy13

Whitewavemark2 Thu 10-Jun-21 09:55:02

GrannyGravy13

Whitewavemark2

Remember you voted for exactly this situation, and should be welcoming our sovereignty to choose to be pushed around.

Your support of what basically amounts to bullying is astounding!!!!!

I assume you also support bullying in the workplace and within the school system?

It isn’t bullying😄😄😄😄😄😄

It is an economic block protecting its interests and keeping to the rules.

It’s what economic blocks and countries do.

Whitewavemark2 Thu 10-Jun-21 09:59:41

You voted for it.

Welshwife Thu 10-Jun-21 09:59:47

The EU did that for something like three hours and then rescinded it!
David Barny who wrote that book - who is he - what expertise does he have? Nothing comes up when you Google him which in my experience is very strange. Is he maybe another purveyor of scaremongering false information?
As far as I know the EU is still not a Federalist state and over time countries/alliances do change - this is also one of the points Cameron negotiated prior to the questionable referendum but had little publicity. - the United Kingdom is NOT committed to further integration with the EU. This was written into the agreement he got.

maddyone Thu 10-Jun-21 10:26:57

….the world’s foremost narcissistic liar…..

I find it interesting that people describe the PM’s actions in this way, even though they don’t know him personally. Posters on the royal threads get told repeatedly that they don’t personally know the royals and so shouldn’t say anything about their actions.

maddyone Thu 10-Jun-21 10:31:04

I’m very uncomfortable with foreign politicians interfering in this situation. People didn’t like it when Trump tried to interfere, and when Obama tried to interfere. And it is interfering, however much others will protest that it’s not. America provided a lot of funding to the IRA in the past, so it’s not a good look for America to say anything about that which is not their business.

Urmstongran Thu 10-Jun-21 10:34:16

we are the underdogs in this quarrel and if the EU chooses to impose rules they can

I wouldn’t be surprised if the EU push their luck just a step too far, we opt out and go WTO.

Casdon Thu 10-Jun-21 10:35:22

It isn’t bullying when an agreement is signed, and one side repeatedly tests the boundaries to its own advantage, but isn’t allowed to get away with it by the other parties. . The UK signed up to both the Good Friday Agreement and the detailed Brexit arrangements for Northern Ireland. This is our bad.

Whitewavemark2 Thu 10-Jun-21 10:36:14

Urmstongran

^we are the underdogs in this quarrel and if the EU chooses to impose rules they can^

I wouldn’t be surprised if the EU push their luck just a step too far, we opt out and go WTO.

So there😝

Whitewavemark2 Thu 10-Jun-21 10:44:40

Anyone listen to Bidens speech when he was talking about democracy, and how democracy best delivers what the people want.

So he then proceeded to list those countries who have an excellent democratic record.

Australia
New Zealand
Japan
European countries.

On the other side
Russia notably Putin
Brazil
Hungary
China
U.K?

It was notable that we according to the leader of the democratic world the U.K. was not listed.

Blimey! Not surprising though.

GrannyGravy13 Thu 10-Jun-21 11:04:16

Whitewavemark2 good marks for trying on this one, but unless you haven’t noticed the UK is still in Europe, we are still a European Country!

(Unless the newly commissioned UK Navy vessels towed our Islands out into the middle of the Atlantic overnight) 😂😂😂

MaizieD Thu 10-Jun-21 11:14:47

maddyone

^….the world’s foremost narcissistic liar…..^

I find it interesting that people describe the PM’s actions in this way, even though they don’t know him personally. Posters on the royal threads get told repeatedly that they don’t personally know the royals and so shouldn’t say anything about their actions.

As this is confirmed not only by nearly everyone who has known and worked with him and by his own blatant and continual lying both in and out of Parliament I don't think I'm far wrong.

As for 'narcissistic', has no-one else read Tom McTague's reverential 'portrait' of him in The Atlantic. In which Johnson told the journalist that the chaos is intentional because then everyone has to look to him as Leader. (Confirming what Cummings said a week or so ago to the parliamentary select committee) Narcissistic or what?

The RF are not verbose self publicists. So much of people's judgements are guess work. Johnson condemns himself regularly out of his own mouth.

Whitewavemark2 Thu 10-Jun-21 11:23:00

Frost has pulled out of being questioned by one of the parliamentary committees.

Katie59 Thu 10-Jun-21 11:25:10

Urmstongran

^we are the underdogs in this quarrel and if the EU chooses to impose rules they can^

I wouldn’t be surprised if the EU push their luck just a step too far, we opt out and go WTO.

Of course we could still do that, the nuclear option, but does ANYONE think that’s a good idea?

And why