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It is legal to believe in two biological sexes - Maya Forstater judgement 10.6.2021

(59 Posts)
FarNorth Thu 10-Jun-21 11:30:52

Here is a statement from Maya Forstater, on winning her case at Employment Appeal Tribunal :

youtu.be/jOIKlg71LJc

Here is the judgement given :

www.gov.uk/employment-appeal-tribunal-decisions/maya-forstater-v-cgd-europe-and-others-ukeat-slash-0105-slash-20-slash-joj

Appeal No. UKEAT/0105/20/JOJ

EMPLOYMENT APPEAL TRIBUNAL

ROLLS BUILDING, 7 ROLLS BUILDINGS, FETTER LANE, LONDON, EC4A 1NL

At the Tribunal
on 27 & 28 April 2021
Handed down on 10 June 2021

Before

THE HONOURABLE MR JUSTICE CHOUDHURY (PRESIDENT)

MR C EDWARDS

MRS M V MCARTHUR BA FCIPD

MAYA FORSTATER

APPELLANT

CGD EUROPE
CENTER FOR GLOBAL DEVELOPMENT
MASOOD AHMED

RESPONDENTS

INDEX ON CENSORSHIP
EQUALITY AND HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSION INTERVENORS

Transcript of Proceedings

JUDGMENT

© Copyright 2021

APPEARANCES
SUMMARY
TOPIC NUMBER 26: RELIGION OR BELIEF DISCRIMINATION

The Claimant holds gender-critical beliefs, which include the belief that sex is immutable and not to be conflated with gender identity. She engaged in debates on social media about gender identity issues, and in doing so made some remarks which some trans gender people found offensive and “transphobic”. Some of her colleagues at work complained that they found her comments offensive, and, following an investigation, her visiting fellowship was not renewed. The Claimant complained that she was discriminated against because of her belief. There was a preliminary hearing to determine whether the Claimant’s belief was a philosophical belief within the meaning of s.10 of the Equality Act 2010 (EqA). The Tribunal held that the belief, being absolutist in nature and whereby the Claimant would “refer to a person by the sex she considers appropriate even if it violates their dignity and/or creates an intimidating, hostile, degrading or offensive environment”, was one that was “not worthy of respect in a democratic society”. Accordingly, the Tribunal concluded that the belief did not satisfy the fifth criterion in Grainger plc v Nicholson [2010] ICR 360 (“Grainger V”). The Claimant appealed.

Held, allowing the appeal, that the Tribunal had erred in its application of Grainger V. A philosophical belief would only be excluded for failing to satisfy Grainger V if it was the kind of belief the expression of which would be akin to Nazism or totalitarianism and thereby liable to be excluded from the protection of rights under Articles 9 and 10 of the European Convention of Human Rights (ECHR) by virtue of Article 17 thereof. The Claimant’s gender-critical beliefs, which were widely shared, and which did not seek to destroy the rights of trans persons, clearly did not fall into that category. The Claimant’s belief, whilst offensive to some, and notwithstanding its potential to result in the harassment of trans persons in some circumstances, fell within the protection under Article 9(1), ECHR and therefore within s.10, EqA.

However:

This judgment does not mean that the EAT has expressed any view on the merits of either side of the transgender debate and nothing in it should be regarded as so doing.
This judgment does not mean that those with gender-critical beliefs can ‘misgender’ trans persons with impunity. The Claimant, like everyone else, will continue to be subject to the prohibitions on discrimination and harassment that apply to everyone else. Whether or not conduct in a given situation does amount to harassment or discrimination within the meaning of EqA will be for a tribunal to determine in a given case.
This judgment does not mean that trans persons do not have the protections against discrimination and harassment conferred by the EqA. They do. Although the protected characteristic of gender reassignment under s.7, EqA would be likely to apply only to a proportion of trans persons, there are other protected characteristics that could potentially be relied upon in the face of such conduct.
This judgment does not mean that employers and service providers will not be able to provide a safe environment for trans persons. Employers would continue to be liable (subject to any defence under s.109(4), EqA) for acts of harassment and discrimination against trans persons committed in the course of employment.

trisher Mon 14-Jun-21 18:09:08

If I was to fill a thread with accusations about far right extremism, the anti-immigrant and islamaphobic hate speech used by some groups of people and indicate or even vaguely imply that this is the general behaviour of all those whose politics are right of centre I would quite rightly be pulled up and told how wrong I was. And yet posters on GN when confronted with any trans issue insist on referring to violent and agressive incidents usually without any supporting evidence. They may consider they are not showing evidence of transphobia, but what else can you call it? Most transgender people are not agressive, live quietly, normal lives and if they have a sexual relationship prefer to have it with someone who consents.
Which is why I drew attention to the sentence.
FarNorth Maya lost her job because Some of her colleagues at work complained that they found her comments offensive, and, following an investigation, her visiting fellowship was not renewed.

Skydancer Mon 14-Jun-21 18:20:41

I'm sick of all of it. Change the record.

varian Mon 14-Jun-21 18:47:38

I have no personal interest in the transgender debate although I have come across a small number of trans folk, all of whom I wish well.

It seems that the outrage and aggro is all about the fear of fake trans women (ie biological men) intruding on women only spaces and causing harm.

A few years ago there were more men wanting to become women, but it appears that this has been reversed and there are now more girls and women wanting to change sex (or gender, whichever it is). This trend seems to be connected to some extent to the perceived disadvantage of being female.

I don't really think that changing rooms are a problem. I am not comfortable with communal changing rooms so if I go to a swimming pool, I will if necessary, change in the loo. No problem.

I think the only serious issue which should be addressed is in the realm of competitive sport, where someone who has a larger male physique would have an unfair advantage competing as a woman.

Mollygo Mon 14-Jun-21 19:02:18

Varian, it’s the cases where things go wrong that make the news.
E.g My experience with transmen on mental health wards was appalling.
Rosie51 made another good point about crimes against women committed by transmen being recorded as committed by men not by what they claim to be.
I know 3 trans of either sex and I knew them before they made their decision they seem to be as peaceful as most of us and don’t actually mention their status.

varian Mon 14-Jun-21 19:03:54

The popular press will always highlight sensational cases, no matter how rare they are.

Ilovecheese Mon 14-Jun-21 19:42:11

I don't think it is trans people who threaten violence, I think they are used as cover by men who don't like women.

Galaxy Mon 14-Jun-21 19:49:37

Yes I think lots of men use this debate to target women. I don't think they give one fig about trans rights. The judgement wasnt about harassment which Maya did not do, it was about the right to express a belief, which is now protected in law.

FarNorth Tue 15-Jun-21 00:01:39

A lot of men who don't like women are claiming to be transwomen.
Which is why self-id and acceptance without exception are a bad idea.