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Covid vaccinations to be made compulsory for care home staff

(264 Posts)
JenniferEccles Wed 16-Jun-21 11:49:34

It’s about time isn’t it?
Why have so many of those who look after some of the most vulnerable people in society been able to refuse all this time?
Those with a genuine medical reason to explain their refusal will be exempt but others who continue to refuse will be deployed elsewhere or asked to leave.

romaroot Wed 16-Jun-21 12:22:09

People said I was mad last year when I said it would become compulsory. I saw it coming, and not a conspiracist, but can't help thinking they were right.
I suppose I'd just look for another job, perhaps working from home.

mokryna Wed 16-Jun-21 12:23:48

Same here romaroot when I said earlier this year that it was going to be the rule in France.

maddyone Wed 16-Jun-21 12:28:50

Initially I thought that it would be difficult to impose this on currently employed staff but okay for new staff. I’m still a bit uneasy with the changing of their Contract of Employment but can see that it’s a good thing for all Carers and eventually NHS staff to be vaccinated, so I think now, on balance, I support it.

Esspee Wed 16-Jun-21 12:31:49

I can't understand the logic in allowing those who cannot be vaccinated to be exempt unless they tested positive for antibodies showing they have some immunity.
This is a new health threat and the most vulnerable need protecting.

Alegrias1 Wed 16-Jun-21 12:35:22

That's a good point Esspee; if its acceptable for people who can't be vaccinated to work in care homes, then why is it necessary for those who don't want to be vaccinated to lose their jobs or be redeployed?

I don't know what the answer is here and I'm interested to read others' points of view.

Casdon Wed 16-Jun-21 12:40:56

The compliance has been increasing in recent months anyway - 95.6% of NHS staff and 92.1% of care home staff have now had at least their first vaccination here (Wales), so if the government give staff four months notice that it will become compulsory it should have a minimal impact on service delivery, as some will opt to have it then. Redeployment to non patient contact roles in care homes isn’t realistically going to be much of an option for those staff who still don’t want it though, as what would/could they do instead?
It’s a really difficult dilemma for some people I think, as if you are adamantly opposed to vaccination you are effectively unable to work. No doubt there will be legal challenges.

Talullah Wed 16-Jun-21 12:46:15

I've a friend who is reluctantly looking for a home for her mother who has advanced dementia. She's been looking at a few and one of the first questions she asks is are the staff vaccinated against Covid. Maybe some will think it's none of her business but I can see the reasoning. Maybe the care/nursing homes are appreciating that this is going to be a question asked of them and if they say no they will lose a prospective resident.

Lucca Wed 16-Jun-21 12:51:50


People said I was mad last year when I said it would become compulsory. I saw it coming, and not a conspiracist, but can't help thinking they were right.
I suppose I'd just look for another job, perhaps working from home.

Why ? Just have the jab!

I’m 100% in agreement with this decision

Visgir1 Wed 16-Jun-21 12:54:32

My sister is a Peripatetic Nurse manager for a Care Home group, ensuring standards and CQC requirements.
They put into place several months ago, no vaccination no job, and definitely no sick pay.
They advised all staff to get it otherwise, they are breaking there updated guidelines, notice and a time frame was given per employment law . Those who refuse left their posts, apparently only a couple of them across the group.
One nurse kicked up a fuss she was aware of the new terms, she continued to refused, they reiterate the need.
Before anything else could take place with her she got Covid. Due to all the advise in place she wanted to do it her way, so they refused to pay her sick any pay.

Alegrias1 Wed 16-Jun-21 12:56:24

They put into place several months ago, no vaccination no job, and definitely no sick pay.

Is that legal?

JenniferEccles Wed 16-Jun-21 13:02:20

I am struggling to have any sympathy with those who refuse.
They must be well aware of how reassuring it would be for the residents and their families knowing that every member of staff had been vaccinated.

Visgir1 Wed 16-Jun-21 13:05:55

Alegrias1 it was all done by the book.
Also I believe with this particular individual her Bradford index was through the roof.

JenniferEccles Wed 16-Jun-21 13:07:53

I wonder how many residents that nurse could potentially have infected when she got covid Visgirl?
That’s a classic example of why compliance is essential.
I am pleased the home stood firm on their policy.

PippaZ Wed 16-Jun-21 13:08:09


^They put into place several months ago, no vaccination no job, and definitely no sick pay.^

Is that legal?

I suppose there are ways and ways of doing this, some of which are legal. Jobs do have special requirements - I wouldn't be too keen to sign the official secrets act at this moment. I thought there were certain vaccinations surgeons had to have. If so there must be a legal way.

Alegrias1 Wed 16-Jun-21 13:08:23

Could be as a result of her absence record rather than the refusal to take the vaccine then. I would have thought that if someone is entitled to sick pay you can't withhold it because they don't take the vaccine. Not an expert though.

Doodledog Wed 16-Jun-21 13:22:13

I've heard of people getting discretionary sick pay, which I can only imagine being horribly divisive and causing more problems than it solves, but I think it is legal.

As for the vaccine being compulsory for care workers, I have posted before about when my son was born and we had a very distressing experience because a member of staff was not vaccinated. My son was briefly in SCU, as his birth was very difficult, and one of the SHOs had lied about having had the TB vaccination. The doctor was from abroad, and had contracted TB before coming to the UK. My son, along with all the other babies who had been in the SCU were recalled to hospital for X rays, blood tests and prophylactic medicine. He was just days old, and it was very distressing.

I would not wish that on anyone, or on their parents or children. It really has made me hardline when it comes to vaccines, which works against my natural 'live and let live' outlook.

SueDonim Wed 16-Jun-21 13:32:54

My dd is a new medic and she had to have Hep B vaccines to work in certain areas. Also, because of her BCG/TB status (a complicated history) she is not allowed to treat anyone with TB.

I wonder if the family of a care home resident who caught and died from CV from an unvaccinated carer would be able to sue them?

Biscuitmuncher Wed 16-Jun-21 14:02:48

It's a slippery slope, isn't it, forcing people to have a vaccine?

Gossamerbeynon1945 Wed 16-Jun-21 14:18:37

My daughter is a nurse and she had to have a Hep B vaccine befor she was employed by the NHS

BigBertha1 Wed 16-Jun-21 14:25:57

I tried every year to get my District Nursing staff to have the 'flu jab with on partial success consequently high rates of sickness in January as they and their families became ill. HR were completely unhelpful. I think this is a very sensible decision.

maddyone Wed 16-Jun-21 14:30:43

SueDonim my daughter also had to have the Hep B vaccine before she started any clinical work in the hospital where she trained to be a doctor.

GrannyGravy13 Wed 16-Jun-21 15:34:59

Whilst I think it is necessary at this moment, I am not entirely comfortable with compulsory vaccination.

I have thought long and hard about this and I keep coming back to the same place where I am uncertain that this could raise a precedent whereby it becomes law to have certain vaccines pre-school etc.

I know if I go to certain Countries I have to have proof of certain vaccines but, a choice has been made to visit that place.

I am extremely pleased that it's not a decision I have had to make.

PippaZ Wed 16-Jun-21 15:35:17


It's a slippery slope, isn't it, forcing people to have a vaccine?

You are not forcing people to have a vaccine though, are you? You are saying that the job requires you to be vaccinated.

If I saw a job advertised that required heavy lifting I could not and would not be able to do it. No one would suggest I was being forced into heavy lifting. Similarly if a job requires a qualification you don't have you would not say you are being forced to get that qualification.

sodapop Wed 16-Jun-21 15:37:22

Yes same here SueDonim Hep B and tetanus.

No one is being forced to have the vaccination Biscuitmuncher There will be other jobs where the vaccination is not a condition of employment.