Brexit is fast becoming a disaster

Talullah

I didn't want to be muddling through this either but I'm pragmatic as well as pedantic I suppose. Fifty years from now most of us will be toast and this will just be something that happened and the passion of today will have long gone.

Yes, exactly ??

muffinthemoo

The ‘metropolitan liberal elite’ sound cool and rich and fashionable, like the cast of a Fitzgerald novel. The drum bangers really need to come up with a better insult for us.

There isn’t a better one ?

muffinthemoo

Alegrias1

Talullah

www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jun/24/brexit-campaigners-surprised-by-sour-relations-with-eu-says-lord-frost

Quote: Frost admitted that campaigners for Vote Leave did not anticipate the impact Brexit would have on relations with the countries Boris Johnson consistently refers to as “our friends and neighbours”.

In other news, man who instigated acrimonious divorce from long-time wife surprised at exclusion from weekly Sunday lunch

Well, he did think that the legal papers he'd signed to finalise the divorce were only temporary... Couldn't believe that his ex wife would actually insist that he complied with them...

Alegrias1

Talullah

www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jun/24/brexit-campaigners-surprised-by-sour-relations-with-eu-says-lord-frost

Quote: Frost admitted that campaigners for Vote Leave did not anticipate the impact Brexit would have on relations with the countries Boris Johnson consistently refers to as “our friends and neighbours”.

In other news, man who instigated acrimonious divorce from long-time wife surprised at exclusion from weekly Sunday lunch

The ‘metropolitan liberal elite’ sound cool and rich and fashionable, like the cast of a Fitzgerald novel. The drum bangers really need to come up with a better insult for us.

We have been scoffed at and demonised as the "metropolitan liberal elite". Many of us are liberal (with a small "l" if not Liberal), if that means being socially responsible and internationalist in our outlook. Some might be metropolitan, (but many are not) and we can only be described as elite if those with a better than average level of education are somehow elite.

If elite means priviledged I suspect most of us are nowhere near as elite as the likes of Johnson, Farage, Gove, Cummings etc, to say nothing of their billionaire funders who made this disaster happen. .

I didn't want to be muddling through this either but I'm pragmatic as well as pedantic

Obviously we have to live with this as best we can (muddling through) because it's unavoidable, but I feel much the same as Alegrias; I will never forgive those who put us in this position.

Chris Grey's always excellent blog, by way of 5 year anniversary thoughts, discusses the treatment of Remain voters over the past 5 years.

This was an interesting point:

From the very start, these people’s concerns were ignored or dismissed. They were told to ‘suck it up’, insulted as cry-babies, stereotyped as only interested in their Tuscan holiday homes and cheap Bulgarian nannies, demonised as ‘enemies of the people’ and ‘saboteurs’, and traduced as traitors. Yet, also from the start, there was a huge irony. Precisely because of the educational and social demographic of the vote (e.g. 57% of social classes AB voted remain), it was statistically likely that those who actually had to take responsibility for enacting Brexit were in many cases part of this demonised group. In any case, few Brexiters actually had the technical knowledge to do it: in general, people who understood what Brexit actually involved didn’t support it. (my emphasis)

So although some Brexiters like to think of themselves as having initiated a revolution, it was an unusual one in requiring those who did not want it to do the hard work of enacting it. Some amongst the civil service no doubt accepted that as part of their professional duty – whilst all the time being belaboured for supposedly not doing so – or even actively embraced it despite their previous views, as seems to have happened with Frost himself. Others, including those in business and civil society organizations, have had no choice but to make what adjustments were necessary to deal with it.

chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/2021/06/when-country-cancelled-half-its-citizens.html

I didn't want to be muddling through this either but I'm pragmatic as well as pedantic I suppose. Fifty years from now most of us will be toast and this will just be something that happened and the passion of today will have long gone.

Hi, Pedantic I agree regarding the viewpoint of the Guardian. However the second bit in italics in my post from 13:24 is an actual quote from Frost. And he's meant to be the bright one.

Whether we muddle through this or not remains to be seen, but a very large section of the population of Britain would rather we didn't have to muddle through anything, and if they're like me, will never forgive those who put us in this position with their lies, deceit and self interest.

Alegrias1

I took it as a paraphrase The whole article is very enlightening.

Asked if the British government had “underestimated what sort of impact” the protocol would have on the movement of goods, Frost hinted this was the case.

I don’t see what is wrong with learning from experience. This is a very unusual agreement and we’ve learned a lot about how economic actors behave …

Any number of posters on this forum could have told them that.

Well a paraphrase isn't an actual quote. So we shouldn't say that it's the quote of the year. Pedantic is my name.

I agree the article is enlightening. But the norm for The Guardian. I agree with the last paragraph though. We will muddle through this.

I was listening to musicians, singers, and people working in the performing arts.

Brexit is very likely to destroy them.

Most of us who have lived in Europe have no recollection of ever seeing poppies for sale there.
I used to live in France, and poppies were always sold at Carcassonne airport.

I took it as a paraphrase The whole article is very enlightening.

Asked if the British government had “underestimated what sort of impact” the protocol would have on the movement of goods, Frost hinted this was the case.

I don’t see what is wrong with learning from experience. This is a very unusual agreement and we’ve learned a lot about how economic actors behave …

Any number of posters on this forum could have told them that.

Ah, thanks Alegrias1 So it wasn't an actual quote.

Talullah

www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jun/24/brexit-campaigners-surprised-by-sour-relations-with-eu-says-lord-frost

Quote: Frost admitted that campaigners for Vote Leave did not anticipate the impact Brexit would have on relations with the countries Boris Johnson consistently refers to as “our friends and neighbours”.

You couldn't make it up, could you?

We knew what we voted for. But we didn't know what we were voting for.

Tumbleweed from the Brexit supporting quarters....

Whitewavemark2

????

David Frost: "we didn't realise that the EU would treat us as a non-EU country after we left the EU".

Did he really say that? I have searched the quote and can't find it.

Wasn't Frost described by one of the Brexitty Gnetters as "brilliant"?

Turns out he's about as brilliant as Dido Harding who said last year that no-one could have foreseen students returning to universities in September.

Whitewavemark2

????

David Frost: "we didn't realise that the EU would treat us as a non-EU country after we left the EU".

That has to be the quote of the year surely, I mean how could you expect them to understand that leaving the EU would mean we aren't in the EU.

I'd laugh if I wasn't crying.

????

David Frost: "we didn't realise that the EU would treat us as a non-EU country after we left the EU".

Brexit has already driven away an estimated £1.3 tn of assets and jobs. By April, more than 440 finance firms had fled, taking 10% of the UK’s financial sector assets, worth a staggering £900bn! Foreign investment? It’s tanking. We are losing our shirt!

No lie, but perhaps selective reporting?

The CBI quote focusses on growth rather than the absolute value of manufacturing to the economy. The quote about fastest growth on record is, I suspect, being used to show that all is well and look how successful we are, even after Brexit. Whereas in fact, we are just not quite recovering from the disaster that has struck us. (Covid and Brexit)

Same with the order books being strongest for 30 years; I expect that is due to the latent demand leading to orders that didn't get placed previously being placed now, but the headline is intended to make the reader think that everything is rosy.

"The pro-Brexit press is starting to write those articles we all knew were on the way... The British economy is not bouncing back from Covid and the lockdown, oh no, this is a 'BREXIT BONANZA'; Global Britain is booming it seems, not because the constraints of Covid are coming to an end but because we have left the EU.

Strange that there doesn’t seem to be a single industry that isn’t complaining about more red tape, higher costs, more restrictions, barriers to trade and staff shortages; but still this is a 'Brexit boom'.

Except it isn’t, we all know that, anyone with an ounce of common sense knows it isn’t. You just have to ask yourself: What has made trade easier in the last six months? What regulations have been eased? What has happened that Brussels would have stymied six months ago? Where are the millions of British workers trained and ready to replace EU immigrants? Where is the money saved from EU contributions being spent to boost growth?"

www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit-news/jonty-bloom-on-the-economic-cost-of-brexit-8038224

"Lies, damned lies and .... CBI interpretations" "we have the fastest growth on record" well we do don't we?. The fact we've had the fastest fall on record due to COVID may be the reason for this growth, but the growth is there so where's the lie?

MaizieD

GrannyGravy13

U.K. manufacturing output volumes in the three months to June grew at the fastest pace on record with order books at their strongest in over 30 years.

Source CBI’s Industrial Trends Survey

I wonder how much of that is a response to a) covid slowdown, b) for the internal market c) for export?

After the fastest fall on record due to COVID, we have the fastest growth on record. Not quite back yet to where we were, I see.

Lies, damned lies and ..... CBI interpretations.