Birthing People - inclusive or offensive?

And the group that are always utterly ignored in these situations, women with learning disabilities who need clear language to access medical support.

trisher

And if that person chose not to be called either a woman or a mother ,refused to respond to either of those names what then? What do you call them? Do you ignore their request?

No, I’ll call them whatever they choose, man, woman etc, reserving my right to be called woman, mother, grandmother etc. rather than any of the latest gamut of terms being invented.
I wouldn’t even raise the subject of biological sex unless they did, but I can’t lie and say that someone who wasn’t born female can get pregnant and give birth, even if they are happy to lie.
In the future, it’s quite possible that men will demand a womb transplant on the NHS and birth by Caesarian section.
I can’t see them asking for ovaries, periods and the menopause.
The NHS is short of money, but it would be men demanding this surgery so . . .

If it was inclusive it would be mothers and birthing people.

How about the case of surrogates?

I like the change, it is more inclusive and reflects the current social situation

And if that person chose not to be called either a woman or a mother ,refused to respond to either of those names what then? What do you call them? Do you ignore their request?

Political correctness gone mad

Today 09:26 trisher

So if a woman wishes to be called a man you would all force her to remain a woman?

I haven’t seen anyone that has said that. As I said earlier, call yourself what you will, love as a man, woman or whatever. The point being made is that only someone born a woman can carry and give birth to a child.

Ilovecheese

If they said "and" it would make such a difference.
Women "and" birthing people.
Who could object to that?

Agree Trisher which is why I posted the above as a compromise.

Totally agree

I haven't read the original source of this decision about naming the female progenitor of offspring, but I don't think it is intended to replace "mother" for all of those female progenitors, but just to be used optionally for those who don't regard themselves as female mothers, and so don't want to be labelled as one. Getting our (large maternity size) knickers in a twist over it is rather over-reacting. It is only the relatively few trans people who find themselves in a maternity ward and addressed as "Mother" who are affected. If they don't want to think of themselves as the child's mother, that is their choice.

It doesn't alter the biological fact that if a child has been nurtured for nine months inside a body that, at that time, was hormonally female enough to support it, the relationship between nurturer and nurtured is inescapably a mother-and-child one, just as the relationship of a foetus or a newborn child with the provider of sperm is a father-and-child one. That is the most basic definition of the words "mother" and "father". The future nurturing and upbringing of the child once it is born may change its relationship with its parents and/or carers, but up to its arrival in the world, it is dependent on the hormones that keep the womb environment suitable for its survival - and female.

By the way Freddy McConnell is English law and the OP is about USA law. It will be interesting to see if the same question is raised in court there. Who knows what Freddy's child calls him. I know women who refused to be called 'mother'they thought it impinged on their individuality.

If anyone refers to me as a birthing person I will not be responsible for my reaction

But no one has said you can't be called "mother", if that is what you wish. But legislation has to cover all the eventualities and one of those is that someone who gives birth may prefer not to be called 'mother' and their right to do so should be respected. It's simply extending the law to cover everyone and not undermining anyone's rights.

It's a mistake to think that all trans people have genital surgery. Most don't.

I don't agree with the idea of requiring anyone to undergo surgery, btw.

Hannah & Jake Graf are both transgender and became parents last year.
www.walesonline.co.uk/whats-on/whats-on-news/trans-couple-documentary-modern-miracle-18676622

Not all transmen who give birth get into the news, but I get the impression there are plenty of them - although not nearly as many of them as other women, of course.
www.today.com/health/trans-parents-say-medical-system-isn-t-set-their-pregnancies-t218691

Anniebach

a person who gives birth will they be daddy or mummy ?

Freddy McConnell lost in court, when trying to be registered as 'father' on their baby's birth certificate.
I expect the child does now call Freddy 'daddy' tho.

www.theguardian.com/society/2020/apr/29/transgender-man-loses-appeal-court-battle-registered-father-freddy-mcconnell

BlueBelle

Yep I m in agreement with the rest of posters you can’t give birth without a womb whatever words you use

Yes indeed.

25Avalon

There was one court case where a trans man who had given birth wanted to go on the birth certificate as mother and father. He lost. If you want to have a child of your own TB how would you achieve it if you are trans man without giving birth yourself before fully transitioning.

The Angel Gabriel?

There was one court case where a trans man who had given birth wanted to go on the birth certificate as mother and father. He lost. If you want to have a child of your own TB how would you achieve it if you are trans man without giving birth yourself before fully transitioning.

Birthing Person of God!!
( according to the letter of the law, Mx. The letter!”)

Can't help wondering if a person who wishes to be known as a man would want to undergo one of a very defining state that pertains to females. I thought the whole point of transitioning was to immerse one's self in the opposite of what they once were and presumably at some stage having certain parts of anatomy removed or added to become either a man or woman.

a person who gives birth will they be daddy or mummy ?

Does that mean when our children address us as Mother it now has to be person who gives birth. Or happy mothers day now has to be happy person who gave birth to me

I find it neither inclusive nor offensive, but just plain stupid.
I cannot see any sense in it at all.

Far North you say "countless" transmen have given birth, genuine question I wonder just how many, I think I read about one, maybe two in Britain. Even globally I imagine the number is infinitesimal to warrant such sweeping changes and as you say to remove the word "mother" a word of immense importance throughout all cultures since the beginning of time.