I have just about had enough of these contradictory covid19 regulations.

Alegrias1

I'm a scientist, just not a medic.

I think its a mistake to present the BMA's comments on things as being from the medical establishment when they are actually from a Trade Union.

I posted two items. The first was paraphrased from the British Medical Association. I suspect as a doctors union, they are rightly concerned at the possibility of beds being used which were hopefully earmarked for the backlog together with the extra and in their view unnecessary work for the clinicians.

Your comment was assuming something that wasn’t true.

The next post I made was from a paediatrician. I assume you will allow him some knowledge, although you didn’t say.

Which area did you study in science?

I'm a scientist, just not a medic.

I think its a mistake to present the BMA's comments on things as being from the medical establishment when they are actually from a Trade Union.

BMA are alarmed at the current growing in covid and Johnson’s plan to completely open up.

No, nothing about spacing of vaccine doses.
I posted that thread as evidence that perhaps the BMA had grounds for concern. Seeing that Alegrias was casting doubts on utility of the BMA's comment.

I'm not a scientist, either, but I'm glad, growstuff, that you seem to have taken much the same message from that thread as I have.

I'm not sure which part of that thread you mean Maizie. It was started by an immunologist (not a BMA rep) who seems to know his stuff. His point is that Covid is not like flu because Covid affects the brain, which is one of the reasons it causes long-term complications. It's been known for a long time that Covid isn't primarily a respiratory disease. It's the effect on oxygen supply which affects the lungs, as it does other major organs.

His argument seems to be that short term statistics aren't adequate in evaluating the effects of Covid. Other scientists support that view and think we could be just at the beginning. That's why, in his view and others, as many people as possible should be prevented from being infected.

Is there something else in the thread about the spacing of vaccine doses?

The BMA is the doctor's union, they are not a learned body. This is on their website and has just been announced as such on Classic FM news, where another doctor none of us has heard of, was rolled out to say something along the lines of "restrictions forever, definitely".

The BMA are entitled to their take on things, and their members will certainly have specialist knowledge. But they get things wrong too and they come at it from the perspective of their members, not the health and wealth of the nation. I didn't say they were mistaken, and I won't be commenting on the twitter thread you attached because I'm not a medic and I know my limitations, unlike some who only consider one aspect of a problem before sounding off to the nation.

Alegrias1

The BMA were adamant that anything longer that a 3 week gap for the second dose of the vaccine was folly and would be the worst decision ever.

I'll take anything else they say with a pinch of salt.

Perhaps you'd like to comment on this thread, Alegrias and then judge whether or not the BMA is mistaken?

mobile.twitter.com/fitterhappierAJ/status/1407143750032363530

The two very real dangers of 1) long term damage to any organs (because the virus doesn't confine itself to the respiratory system) and 2) the possibility of a vaccine resistant mutation seem to me to be very good reasons for the BMA not to be happy.........

The BMA were adamant that anything longer that a 3 week gap for the second dose of the vaccine was folly and would be the worst decision ever.

I'll take anything else they say with a pinch of salt.

My first sentence is weird, but you get the drift

BMA are alarmed at the current growing in covid and Johnson’s plan to completely open up.

I also agree with this paediatrician, I have felt uncomfortable about this policy since it was mooted.

Dr Greg Kelly
@drgregkelly
·
7h
As a pediatrician I'm going on record saying that allowing kids to be freely infected with a novel disease that has unknown long term consequences is the worst idea of 2021 despite being a pretty crowded field so far

Things are looking up ?
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/germany-travel-rules-uk-merkel-vaccine-b1877089.html

Very mixed messages from Johnson. Doesn’t seem to want to back down from opening up but advising caution. Suppose he wants people to blame themselves if they catch it.

No posts for the last couple of days here.

I wonder if some who said we should just forget about all precautions and care- and gave approval for the 10s of 1000s of football fans going crazy in the streets, etc - now see it is madness as so many returned with Covid and have been spreading it- with a huge spike in cases, mainly Delta variant.

So this should happen both ways- not just for Europeans coming into UK, but Brits going to Europe. Fair, much safer for all.

Of course it isn't political at all. Just pure scientific common sense- shame it is all a bit too late! As said, most people from Europe have to have PCR test before entering the UK, then isolate for 10 days, and have PCR tests on day 2 and 8, at huge expense. They can also opt for day 5 early release test on top (still have to do day 8) - if they want to be released early on day 5 or 6.

I was looking at vaccination rates for France and Germany they are still running quite a bit behind the Uk
Interesting the amount of Covid testing as well we do far more tests than France or Germany probably around 5 times as much

Especially Ellianne, because their populations have not been vaccinated as quickly as ours. I think Germany and France are catching up, but they have still vaccinated fewer than Britain, and some of the other countries are a long way behind.

They're right to do so for the welfare of their countries. Not political at all.

Jaxjacky

MissChateline Merkel and Macron are proposing that the EU make the UK a ‘variant/country of concern’ with associated quarantines or a total ban on travellers from the UK. Do you think that’s political?

Given that the more transmissible Kent variant spread around Europe and that this government has allowed the Delta variant to run amock here by itself sheer incompetence no, it isn’t political. It’s countries taking care of their own. We are the virus spreaders of Europe these days.

MissChateline Merkel and Macron are proposing that the EU make the UK a ‘variant/country of concern’ with associated quarantines or a total ban on travellers from the UK. Do you think that’s political?

I certainly don’t think we should let it rip but I wonder at what point do we get back to something approaching normal life for everyone. How many restrictions need to be in place to control the virus, if any? What does let it rip really mean in the context of a largely fully vaccinated population. Eventually I guess children will be vaccinated, but as the vaccine is not yet licensed for children, I assume it won’t be soon. America is already vaccinating twelve year olds and above, but we’re not yet. Children respond differently to medicines/treatments and the effect of vaccination on young children is totally unknown. Extreme caution is required with regard to children.

MissChateline

I'm not denying incidence rates are higher. But with more people vaccinated than anywhere in Europe the hospitalisation and mortality rates are low. We have to move on.

Have you heard of Long Covid (1,000,000 known cases in UK so far), or do you only count death as being a significant criteria?
What do we do if 'let it rip' results in a vaccine resistant mutation?

What do we do if it's found that covid causes long term neurological damage which may only manifest itself several years after infection? (Or is it OK to let our children and grandchildren bear that risk because we older folk might be dead by then?)

Why are people even contemplating removing all restrictions when new cases are rising rapidly and there are known and unknown adverse results from infection?

growstuff is your daughter's partner very high up in the analysing of test samples? As I understand it "up to 60% of positive LFTs from schoolchildren prove to be wrong" ....from the Telegraph.

Maddyone. Yes, delete.

And I for one will not acquire the unreliable lateral flow tests and report the result. I have no intention to acquire any of these tests, let alone report to anyone the result of said test. I’m wondering now if I should delete my Track and Trace App.

I'm not denying incidence rates are higher. But with more people vaccinated than anywhere in Europe the hospitalisation and mortality rates are low. We have to move on.