A question

In the case of the Iraq war MaizieD it was not only incompetent but disastrous for the people of Iraq.It should never have been entered into and there was no end game, no plan for after the initial attacks.Yes, the US was to blame but so was Tony Blair.

Labour does have a chance with Starmer as Leader, but none at all with a more left leaning candidate.I cannot think of anyone in the Shadow Cabinet who would have more appeal to the public, certainly not Dawn Butler or Angela Raynor!

Yes I was very pleasantly surprised by Biden.

MayBee70

The far left still haven’t got their heads round the fact that they keep losing elections. Even staunch Conservatives must feel we need a strong opposition.

They're still riding on the 2017 GE result and talking it up as proof that the country want a socialist government. I think that they actually had a point, at the time.

Unfortunately, once the Right Wing Establishment realised that Labour was a very real threat they ran that Vote Leave type campaign on Corbyn with stunning success.

I do wish that the left wing would learn to be more pragmatic, though. They need Labour to be in power before any radical change can happen. They should take a lesson from Joe Biden who ran a 'don't frighten the horses' campaign and turned more radical once he was in power...

MayBee70

The far left still haven’t got their heads round the fact that they keep losing elections. Even staunch Conservatives must feel we need a strong opposition.

Yes we do need a strong and credible opposition whoever is in Government.

Chestnut

MaizieD

Chestnut

Thank you GrannyGravy13. They just can't accept that the Tories keep winning elections and are staying ahead of Labour despite everything.

The tories didn't win the 2017 election, nor the 2010 election, so that's only two out of the four recent ones. Before that I seem to recall 13 years of perfectly competent Labour governments. I don't know what you're on, but it seems to be having an effect...

No-one was willing to risk voting Labour in for 2010 and 2017! I think Cameron and May were both Conservative PMs.
As for 13 years of 'perfectly competent' Labour governments, I can't agree with that.

2010 tory government was a coalition; the tories hadn't won enough seats to govern on their won. It could just as equally have been a Labour/LibDem coalition.

In 2017 Labour (who no-one was willing to vote for according to you) overturned an massive tory lead in the polls to leave them (the tories) with not enough seats to form a government. May only managed to hang on to power with the support of the DUP.

These two results were not the tories greatest moments.

As for your (and lemon's) opinion of Labour government from 1997 to 2010 I doubt very much if either of you could tell me what was incompetent about it apart from the 'Iraq War' mantra.

I actually think that persuading the country to participate in an illegal war is quite a good indication of competence, even if mis applied..

The far left still haven’t got their heads round the fact that they keep losing elections. Even staunch Conservatives must feel we need a strong opposition.

MayBee70

Galaxy

Yes I have heard those rumours as well Grannygravy, what is going on in Batley and Spen is beyond words to be honest. I am not sure who I am most angry with.

I think the person I’m furious with is George Galloway. I don’t understand why people aren’t showing videos of him on Big Brother. How anyone can vote for him is beyond me but the far left of the party are desperate for Labour to lose. Want John McDonnell to be leader from what I’ve heard.

If Labour goes to the far left I think,they are handing any coming elections to the Conservatives for the foreseeable future.

(Just my opinion of course)

Galaxy

Yes I have heard those rumours as well Grannygravy, what is going on in Batley and Spen is beyond words to be honest. I am not sure who I am most angry with.

I think the person I’m furious with is George Galloway. I don’t understand why people aren’t showing videos of him on Big Brother. How anyone can vote for him is beyond me but the far left of the party are desperate for Labour to lose. Want John McDonnell to be leader from what I’ve heard.

Galaxy

Yes I have heard those rumours as well Grannygravy, what is going on in Batley and Spen is beyond words to be honest. I am not sure who I am most angry with.

Did you see the angry mob confronting Ms.Leadbetter, shameful!

Gordon Brown and John Major possibly although we're getting sentimental here.

If you've seen how I refer to Brown on other threads you wouldn't think I was being sentimental

I don't think Boris is strong willed. I think he'll twist in the wind and do anything to avoid taking hard decisions. Remember the "one day back at school before lockdown" debacle?

Yes I have heard those rumours as well Grannygravy, what is going on in Batley and Spen is beyond words to be honest. I am not sure who I am most angry with.

Less people would have died under May, I have no doubt of that, Johnsons character is profoundly unsuited to handling a pandemic as I think May's character was unsuited to handling Brexit.

lemongrove

No you don’t know Maybee and it’s no good speculating.
The fact is that at the moment, the general public think the government did a good job which is why they are doing well
( polls). No doubt there will be the ‘lessons learned’ to help in future pandemics.
There could be Conservative governments for the near future
If things continue poll wise.Batley and Spen by-election is looking good for them at the moment.

On line there are speculations that if Labour do not win the Spen & Batley by-election then Dawn Butler is going to challenge Mr.Starmer for the Labour leadership, not sure how true this is though.

HolySox

Theresa May deliberated too much over Brexit. I think the pandemic needs someone more strong willed. I think Boris has fared well in this respect.

Gordon Brown and John Major possibly although we're getting sentimental here.

Do wonder how we would have fared if Labour had pitched Keir Starmer at the last election. He seems o.k. but his current job is to challenge the government. Seems from this thread he is letting them get away with far too much ...(checks and balances)

I assume you don’t watch PMQT? Difficult to challenge someone who refuses to answer a single question.

lemongrove

It was hardly perfectly competent to take us into a war in Iraq !

Quite right. Weapons of mass destruction and all that.

No you don’t know Maybee and it’s no good speculating.
The fact is that at the moment, the general public think the government did a good job which is why they are doing well
( polls). No doubt there will be the ‘lessons learned’ to help in future pandemics.
There could be Conservative governments for the near future
If things continue poll wise.Batley and Spen by-election is looking good for them at the moment.

Theresa May deliberated too much over Brexit. I think the pandemic needs someone more strong willed. I think Boris has fared well in this respect.

Gordon Brown and John Major possibly although we're getting sentimental here.

Do wonder how we would have fared if Labour had pitched Keir Starmer at the last election. He seems o.k. but his current job is to challenge the government. Seems from this thread he is letting them get away with far too much ...(checks and balances)

It was hardly perfectly competent to take us into a war in Iraq !

Alegrias1

HolySox

Alegrias1

He brought BREXIT on himself and all the rest of us. He doesn't get brownie points for managing that, sorry.

Other leaders? Ardern. Biden. Merkel.

I czn't fhink of any british leaders either.

Well I have one in mind but the thread might self destruct if I mention her ?.

How about May, Gordon Brown, John Major. They would all have done a better job than this lot at steering the country through the pandemic.

?

lemongrove

MaizieD

^ As I said, people are so frightened of the mess Labour will make they keep voting Tory!^

And I say that that is a load of tribalist bollocks, Chestnut. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever to support that statement.

Of course MaizieD you are not in the least tribalist with your brand of politics.?

Chestnut is completely correct, why does anyone think people keep on voting for the Conservatives for so many years? Labour are still well behind in the polls, and will have to do something different to win back voters for the future.
The public think the government have handled the pandemic well, any government would have struggled but if Corbyn
had been PM we wouldn’t have had a fast roll out of vaccines ( he would have waited for the EU to roll out) and he may not have given the go-ahead and all the spending that entailed to the development of AZ.
Whatever individuals on forums think, if the public thought the government was incompetent then they would be behind in the polls, not well ahead.

You don’t know what Corbyn would have done. We do, however know how Johnson handled the pandemic and this will be verified when we eventually get a proper investigation into it.

HolySox

Alegrias1

He brought BREXIT on himself and all the rest of us. He doesn't get brownie points for managing that, sorry.

Other leaders? Ardern. Biden. Merkel.

I czn't fhink of any british leaders either.

Well I have one in mind but the thread might self destruct if I mention her ?.

How about May, Gordon Brown, John Major. They would all have done a better job than this lot at steering the country through the pandemic.

MaizieD

Chestnut

Thank you GrannyGravy13. They just can't accept that the Tories keep winning elections and are staying ahead of Labour despite everything.

The tories didn't win the 2017 election, nor the 2010 election, so that's only two out of the four recent ones. Before that I seem to recall 13 years of perfectly competent Labour governments. I don't know what you're on, but it seems to be having an effect...

No-one was willing to risk voting Labour in for 2010 and 2017! I think Cameron and May were both Conservative PMs.
As for 13 years of 'perfectly competent' Labour governments, I can't agree with that.

I cant spell either. Although fhink maybe correct.?

Alegrias1

He brought BREXIT on himself and all the rest of us. He doesn't get brownie points for managing that, sorry.

Other leaders? Ardern. Biden. Merkel.

I czn't fhink of any british leaders either.

MakzieD I think you know that since the war the Conservatives have won considerably more elections than Labour?

Mr.Blair and Mr,Brown were known to be Tory lite and as for their competence I beg to differ.