Johnson's lies (again) Why do people still believe him?

I think she knew exactly what she was doing, she was asked to reconsider twice and stuck to her guns. She knew what word she wanted to use and used it, casting doubt on her intelligence is laughable. I don't expect she did it to draw attention to herself, but to show Johnson that we know his game and we're not all daft enough not to care about his lies.

Indeed- she knew exactly what she was saying- the truth- and also knew she would not retract and be sent out. Respect. Hope many others follow from now on.

Lincslass

Perhaps she should have the intelligence to find a vocabulary that wouldn’t have seen her thrown out, she could then have continued with her accusations, or perhaps it was deliberate to draw attention to herself.. Perhaps also she should remember her own lies re homelessness and two homes expenses scandal, couldn’t get Covid testing numbers right, then the hypocrisy around Toby Young when she was hobnobbing with Brendan Cox who had to leave his post with save the children. The opposition have done nothing to help in this pandemic, no useful plan to put forward, just criticism and blame. Like a ground hog Labour day. No I don’t agree with everything this Government have done either.

1. What's Toby Young got to do with this?

2. The govt doesn't want the opposition's help. It has been offered and rejected or ignored

3. Oppositions are meant to hold a govt to account. That's a bit difficult with the current PM

4. I'm sure that Dawn Butler. like many of on here know that had she said mistruths instead of lies she wouldn't have been thrown out

At last, the promised Social Care plan we have all been waiting for

borisjohnsonsocialcareplan.com/

Kali2

At last, the promised Social Care plan we have all been waiting for

borisjohnsonsocialcareplan.com/

Excellent!

lincslass

Butler chose her vocabulary with care, for maximum publicity.

Well done her!

I googled Toby Young in the context of Dawn Butler. Found this.

And they call us snowflakes. ??

www.spectator.co.uk/article/dawn-butler-spoiled-one-of-the-best-days-of-my-life

Whitewavemark2

Kali2

At last, the promised Social Care plan we have all been waiting for

borisjohnsonsocialcareplan.com/

Excellent!

Only took 2 years!

It's great to be able to pin down the government's promises on social care at last.

Doodledog

It's great to be able to pin down the government's promises on social care at last.

??

We know now, as if we didn’t before, that Brexit was built on lies.

Alegrias1

I read the Spectator piece - a lot of puff about not much. I had thought that, reading the words "hypocrisy around Toby Young" that she had said something terrible.

I met Toby Young's father several years ago at the celebration of the life of an old school friend. Michael Young founded the Institute for Community Studies in 1953 and my friend worked as his PA throughout her working life from the late 60s onwards.

Michael Young was an influential sociologist, social activist and politician. He co-authored with Peter Willmott the book "Family and Kinship in East London"

He was instrumental in creating or supporting a number of organisations including the OU and the Consumer Council.

Late in life he accepted a life peerage because he was running short of money and would be able to claim the attendance allowance and free travel.

Father and son are at opposite ends of political thought. It's interesting how someone brought up in a left wing political atmosphere could become an extreme right winger.

Oh yes!, Willmott and Young. Blimey that’s a book I’d forgotten

Doodledog

It's great to be able to pin down the government's promises on social care at last.

I am glad you are impressed ;)

growstuff

Katie59

MaizieD

I think that people who say that 'all politicians lie' are, in effect, saying that the people who vote for them are stupid. Why else would they vote for someone who they cannot rely on to carry out their stated intentions?

Because the alternative is worse.
We are voting for the least worse candidate usually, last election it was at least positive “get Brexit done”, since then it’s all been downhill.
To justify their actions all politicians say what ever they need to say wether it’s true or not.

I have met all the candidates in the last election in my constituency. I can honestly say that both the LibDem and Labour candidates were worthier. They would have worked harder and been more honest. I went to the pre-election hustings and they wiped the floor with Conservative candidate, who went on to win with a huge Conservative majority. I don't think people even knew what they were really voting for. They're tribal and don't know what any political party's policies actually are. I went out canvassing with one of the candidates and some of the absolute tripe I heard on doorsteps was breathtaking in its utter ignorance. They really were like some of the "vox pop" interviewees so beloved of TV presenters.

They may have been ˋ better‘ ´but Labour leader then was seen as a hard left commie, who was not palatable to the people of my home town, who had returned a Labour MP for the last 40 years. Lib Dem’s never stand a chance here either, wasted vote.

GrannyGravy13

Can I respectfully point out that it is possible to be a Conservative (at heart) and not be supportive of Mr.Johnson (or a so called on GN ^boris babe^)

Thank you , absolutely.

We need an electoral system where there is no such thing as a wasted vote.

I hope that I can live long enough to see the UK become a democracy.

Lib Dem’s never stand a chance here either, wasted vote.

If all the Labour voters had decided to vote Lib Dem their votes wouldn't have been wasted, would they?

But I can only assume that instead they decided to vote for the wastrel who offered them the moon on a stick.

But why should a Labour voter vote Lib Dem? I don’t understand.

If the LDs had policies that people supported then they would have been able to gain power in their own right. As it is, they seem to want to be the party of the ‘don’t knows’ or a blend of Torylite and semi-skimmed Labour. A bit like Can’t Believe It’s Not Butter.

I’m sure that wasn’t the intention of the SDP when they split the Left and handed power to Thatcher for so long, but it does seem to be what’s happened, and it’s not helped by suggestions like yours.

"suggestions like mine"?

I was thinking about these people who say that they could never have voted for a Corbyn-led Labour party so went Tory instead Doodledog. That is incomprehensible to me - that anyone who thinks of themselves as basically Labour could ever think of voting for this shower.

I always vote for who I want to win.

Alegrias1

"suggestions like mine"?

I was thinking about these people who say that they could never have voted for a Corbyn-led Labour party so went Tory instead Doodledog. That is incomprehensible to me - that anyone who thinks of themselves as basically Labour could ever think of voting for this shower.

I always vote for who I want to win.

It is a dilemma, I couldn’t vote for the current Labour, Lib Dem’s and honestly not sure if I could vote Conservative again unless there are changes of a magnitude unseen before.

We have a major housing/infrastructure planning nightmare in our area at the moment and many locals are looking to see how our constituency MP acts.

It’s hopefully 3 years until next election, plenty of time to ponder

Alegrias1

I googled Toby Young in the context of Dawn Butler. Found this.

And they call us snowflakes. ??

www.spectator.co.uk/article/dawn-butler-spoiled-one-of-the-best-days-of-my-life

?? that is pathetic !

Sorry if I misunderstood, Alegrias. I thought that you were suggesting that disgruntled Labour supporters should vote Lib Dem.

No worries Doodledog, I could have been clearer.

Whitewavemark2

Oh yes!, Willmott and Young. Blimey that’s a book I’d forgotten

Me too! A staple read in A level Sociology. How times have changed; couples got engages, Mum had a word with the rent man, and a flat was procured for the young couple. Matriarchal society too. I digress, but a book which influenced my teens.