New proposals for voter identification.

nanna8

If you don’t have ID how do you know people are not voting twice or three times ?

When you vote in person you give your name & address to the poll clerk and they cross you off the list they hold of all the people registered to vote at their polling station.

Crazy, isn't it, that we actually trust people to be who they say they are? Because, not only are asylum seekers nasty deceitful criminals and terrorists, but our own population consists largely of cheating voters who, for some nefarious and unfathomable reason are hell bent on arranging and carrying out elaborate voting frauds to the detriment of our tottering democracy.

You lot really want to start thinking straight about this . Perhaps someone can explain how a personation exercise could be carried out in sufficient numbers and in sufficient constituencies so as to seriously affect the result of an election?

Even the lying toad who heads the UK government has conceded that this measure is not to counter the practically nonexistent 'problem' of voter fraud, but to counter the perception of fraud. Which is pathetic. If it aint broke, don't fix it.

But of course, that is not the real reason for this measure. It's blatant populism; fixing an ostensibly worrying 'problem' which people can be manipulated into thinking exists, it's voter suppression and it's an extension of authoritarian control.

It's also very sad that most of you seem perfectly happy to add an unnecessary layer of inconvenience to a simple process for no good reason whatsoever.

For £15 you can get a Citizens Card as proof of age. It’s primarily for youngsters needing to prove they are old enough to get into bars. It has 18+ on it. Youngsters are already used to photo ID cards so maybe it’s just older people worried about giving up their “rights” by having one ?

Another thought it’s easy to carry on you in case of accident if you don’t have a mobile phone or other ID.

Youngsters are not "used" to carrying cards who prove who they are to all and sundry.

It's not about proving your age to show you can access optional things. It's about having to justify yourself to people who have no right to ask you.

MaizieD for PM.

Are all posters who are against voter ID also against vaccine passports ?

As in my opinion having to show a total stranger details of ones health is far more intrusive.

Alegrias I was thinking more about older people who have no passport or photo driving licence who may need photo ID for money laundering purposes, as someone asked what would they do. Then I sort of wondered if youngsters are already used to having photo idea maybe they wouldn’t be bothered about a voting card - hence the question Matlock.

MaizieD

nanna8

If you don’t have ID how do you know people are not voting twice or three times ?

When you vote in person you give your name & address to the poll clerk and they cross you off the list they hold of all the people registered to vote at their polling station.

Crazy, isn't it, that we actually trust people to be who they say they are? Because, not only are asylum seekers nasty deceitful criminals and terrorists, but our own population consists largely of cheating voters who, for some nefarious and unfathomable reason are hell bent on arranging and carrying out elaborate voting frauds to the detriment of our tottering democracy.

You lot really want to start thinking straight about this . Perhaps someone can explain how a personation exercise could be carried out in sufficient numbers and in sufficient constituencies so as to seriously affect the result of an election?

Even the lying toad who heads the UK government has conceded that this measure is not to counter the practically nonexistent 'problem' of voter fraud, but to counter the perception of fraud. Which is pathetic. If it aint broke, don't fix it.

But of course, that is not the real reason for this measure. It's blatant populism; fixing an ostensibly worrying 'problem' which people can be manipulated into thinking exists, it's voter suppression and it's an extension of authoritarian control.

It's also very sad that most of you seem perfectly happy to add an unnecessary layer of inconvenience to a simple process for no good reason whatsoever.

Such a good post.

Photo ID and question mark, not Matlock. (Where did IPad get that from?)

SueDonim

25Avalon

I thought the problem was with voters such as students registering to vote twice - once in their home town and once in their university town thus getting 2 votes. Thinking about it how would voter ID cards rectify this situation?

Still need photo ID for certain financial situations.

I know someone whose AC did that, voted at uni and at home. . Hard to see how photo ID would have prevented it, though.

Some do vote twice as SueD says but as she also says how oilfield photo ID have prevented it.

Would not oilfield

What is wrong with this IPad today. How does would become oilfield?

GrannyGravy13

Are all posters who are against voter ID also against vaccine passports ?

As in my opinion having to show a total stranger details of ones health is far more intrusive.

If a person doesn't want to have a vaccine passport, they won't go be able to go into restaurants, cinemas, whatever. Their life will be constrained, but they will not be disenfranchised.

If someone doesn't want voter ID, or can't access it, then they are excluded from the civic life of this country.

Such a good post.

Thank you, WwMk2.

Sometimes when I read threads like this it feels like a horror film where most of the population has had their minds taken over by aliens and are walking zombie like en masse into a death camp.

Why are people accepting, and even defending a measure being introduced to solve a 'problem' that barely exists? A solution which will inevitably deny many people of their citizen right to vote?

GillT in answer to your question - among other things it helps to prevent illegal immigration. When we lived in the Netherlands we had to apply for a card when we arrived and it had to be renewed every 10 years. When you move into an area you have to register with the local town hall where if you are Dutch they have a register of your birth, marriage and death.
This means that if you are ever required to have the above licenses you just get what they call an excerpt from the register or allow outside bodies to have access to the register.
They used to ring me when my passport, driving licence was due for renewal.
I did not feel watched but cared for. It does away with the 10 year census.

Dragonfly how does it prevent illegal immigration? I have heard this but not quite understood how it works. A lot of illegal immigrants ‘disappear’ and are hardly likely to apply for photo ID.

To widen the discussion a little, what do people think about this? An article from 2019 drawing attention to research which claimed that more than nine million people were missing from the electoral register. This is a far greater number than the estimates of the number of people who do not have photo ID.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/27/more-than-9-million-eligible-voters-not-correctly-registered

The research highlighted the stark differences in registration levels between younger people, renters, low-income and black and ethnic minority people, compared with older white people who own their homes.

The discussion on this thread is clearly polarised between those who agree or disagree over the issue of voter photo ID but how might the current system of having to opt in in order to vote be changed to ensure as many people as possible are registered to vote? Do you agree, for example, with being able to register whenever you engage with government bodies or services?

Photo ID is a discriminatory practice as disadvantaged groups are less likely to have ID. According to the Electoral Reform Society: "Evidence from around the world shows that forcing voters to bring photographic ID to the polling station just makes it harder for people to vote – while doing little to increase faith in the integrity of the system. We don’t need to spend millions to put up barriers to people taking part in our democracy." (Read more - www.electoral-reform.org.uk/campaigns/upgrading-our-democracy/voter-id/#:~:text=Evidence%20from%20around%20the%20world%20shows%20that%20forcing,barriers%20to%20people%20taking%20part%20in%20our%20democracy.)
Never before in the history of humanity have we been subjected to so many laws and methods of surveillance.

How would it work with postal voting?

Whitewavemark2

Yes it is a threat to democracy, but no more so than the same scheme proposed by Trump.

What is it with these populists that they are so focused on reducing the voting population by whatever means they can?

Why are they so scared of the vote?

It shows how complacent the voter has become though. This wouldn’t never have passed without a real struggle during the last century. People hadn’t long got full enfranchisement and valued it too much to allow governments to begin to whittle it away.

I think you are missing the point here.

There are people who will go into a voting booth twice and vote twice. There is voter fraud out there and having to have some id to vote will eliminate that

Surely you cannot disagree with a fair process.

Try getting into a Labour Party meeting without your membership card,

WoodLane7

How would it work with postal voting?

Driving license
Utility Bill with your name on
Bus pass with photo

How will this affect postal voters? I'm a postal voter, much more convenient. I don't have to worry about being at home on voting day. I've missed out on voting in the past because of being out of my area. Or having photo ID!

I have always found it really unbelievable that one is not expected to prove who one is when voting. Quite frankly I would say that that in itself is UNDEMOCRATIC.

I would very much like to be sure that people have the right to vote and are doing it in person as far as possible. (There will always be provision for those who are unable to do so).

Surely taking steps to check that those who have the right to vote, and not others, are doing so is the most DEMOCRATIC thing one can do. And if you are going to suggest that some people wont bother to get photo ID, Algerias, then I would suggest that they don't deserve a vote.

I will cheer if and when the legislation is passed.

I definitely think they are a good idea. Then only people entitled to vote can vote, and just one vote per person. In the 2016 election it was proven many students voted twice. Also many students had votes stolen. And postal votes need to be addressed.

I honestly cannot see that a photo id is a threat to democracy.

Surely polling stations have always checked that those who present themselves are eligible to vote?

Whether they do so by asking for your name and address, your social security number or by seeing your passport or driving licence cannot make the slightest bit of difference.

nanna8

If you don’t have ID how do you know people are not voting twice or three times ?

Because there is a list which is ticked off when you register at the polling booth, even if you don't have the card sent by post. Because cards/voters lists are made up from records held by the local authority.

There are people who will go into a voting booth twice and vote twice. There is voter fraud out there and having to have some id to vote will eliminate that

And your evidence for this is?

How many cases of fraudulent voting have been proven in the the last decade?

How many elections have been compromised by fraudulent voting?

Policy making on hearsay and gossip is ridiculous.