New proposals for voter identification.

Get a postal vote? So if you want to cheat, do it by post?

I do wonder if people know how the world works at all, because there is so much evidence on this thread that people have no idea whatsoever.

Alegrias1

What do you want us to do Lemongrove? Politely say that we will happily give up our rights and discourage voting, just because some people keep on ignoring the evidence?

Pity any poor accused person who gets anyone on their jury intent on ignoring the truth and just going with their unfounded beliefs.

I just don't get your point.
Why is it too much to ask people to be willing to show their right to vote before voting? At the moment anybody can claim to be somebody else who is registered to vote. Even bringing along the white voter card which has been sent to your home address would be an improvment on the current system.

To vote you need to be on the Electoral Register.
If you don't want a photo ID you register for a postal vote.
If you're on the Register you are sent a voter card.

End of. Please no more abuse of people who don't agree with your minority viewpoint.

I haven't abused anybody. Be careful who you throw accusations at.

I'm in a car park . Full service to be resumed shortly.

My Father in Law gave up driving at 85, so has no driving license and hasn't had a passport for over 60 years...he can't be alone

Although I’m probably not one of the many who get stopped in the UK and asked for proof of identity (other than driving licence), I have been stopped whilst abroad and asked for identification, both in France and Germany.
I found it strange and unexpected, but I was the person I claimed to be so it wasn’t a problem. If the argument is that requests for proof of identity are always because of colour or ethnicity then I can see the unfairness. If you never go anywhere or do anything where you could be asked for proof of identity then I can understand the reluctance. If you are who you say you are, I don’t see the problem. If you’re not who you claim to be I can see it as a very big problem.

Here voting is compulsory or at least fronting up to the polling booths, getting your name ticked off or lodging a postal vote is. Even for the silly local councils who no one knows or cares about. I got fined one year because I was sick and couldn’t be bothered going out. They didn’t accept my excuse because I didn’t have a doctor’s cert. Like you’d go and pay at the doctors for a cold.

For heaven's sake folk! THERE IS LITTLE OR NO VOTER FRAUD. The Electoral Commission have said this, the Police who investigated previous allegations have said it, even Johnson has said it., so why are some of you so keen to just roll over and have yet another little bit of your democracy chipped away? What about the cost? Are you going to accept another increase on your council tax to pay for it? Are you going to accept that your pot holes won't be filled in to pay for it? This is completely and utterly unnecessary, and is not a party political issue either, David Davis has spoken out against it for one.

I didn't realise we had that many people even bothering to vote to make it such a necessity!
Surely they should be spending more time encouraging people to actually vote in the first place?
How many major elections have been voted for by less than 50% of the eligible population ? I can't believe that there are actually people wandering around and voting more than once or in different places !

GillT57

For heaven's sake folk! THERE IS LITTLE OR NO VOTER FRAUD. The Electoral Commission have said this, the Police who investigated previous allegations have said it, even Johnson has said it., so why are some of you so keen to just roll over and have yet another little bit of your democracy chipped away? What about the cost? Are you going to accept another increase on your council tax to pay for it? Are you going to accept that your pot holes won't be filled in to pay for it? This is completely and utterly unnecessary, and is not a party political issue either, David Davis has spoken out against it for one.

It's not getting through, GillT57

There's 2 issues here. First, Voter ID.

Poster after poster has provided evidence that there is negligible evidence of voter fraud; single numbers in all the millions of people who vote at every election. The electoral system works fine and nothing has changed in recent years to make it more fraud-prone. Posters have also given examples of how Photo ID wouldn't prevent the kind of voter fraud many people seem to imagine exists. So, there isn't a problem, and irrespective of how often people say there is that's just not true. That's not an "opinion" or a point of view; it's the way things are. So what's the point of Voter ID?

Bringing in the necessity for Photo ID to vote is a sure way of reducing the electorate. For probably most of us on here we are pretty tech savvy and engage with politics. If someone has to apply for a card, then make sure they have it with them when they go to vote, some people won’t bother. Or they will find on the day they turn up to vote that they are supposed to have photo ID with them, they’ll be turned away and many won’t come back. We shouldn’t be making voting harder for anybody, we should be trying to open it to as many eligible people as possible.

Second, ID cards.

I have a Driving Licence that I carry in my purse all the time. I had to pass a test to drive, I have to be traceable because I want to drive and there are certain obligations on me because of that. The objection to ID cards isn’t about having a card with your photo on it. It’s about having to have one just to go about your daily business, when nobody, nobody at all, has the right to ask you why you are here and what you are doing.

As for the suggestion that I might just not be used to it; I lived in France and carried my Carte de Sejour like a good girl, because they are the rules in that country. I lived in Australia and was once breathalysed just as part of a surveillance of everybody driving on a particular road at a particular time. We’re not in France, and we’re not in Australia; Policing and government in this country is by consent, they work for us, not vice versa.

It’s got nothing to do with whether proof of identity is related to ethnicity or colour. The fact that any officer of the law can ask you what you are doing walking along the street in your own country is not acceptable, not because we’ve got anything to hide, but because its none of their business.

how weird, my local authority asked me to fill in a survey about voting today, including how I would prefer to vote etc. I crossed the other box and said I believed ALL people should be supported to vote by whichever method they could access.

None of their business? Sometimes, it just is.

I'm gobsmacked to say the least that only one person has commented on my post regarding abuse of ID cards by the police. But then I guess being WASPs it is of no importance to you all.

I, too, am depressed by the number of people who would prefer to solve a non-existent problem and waste more of our councils' precious resources. And in so doing discourage the more marginalised of our society from voting. People can have nothing to hide but, for a variety of reasons, be very frightened of having to produce ID to officials. Why is it that right-wing governments are the ones keenest on voter ID?

Mollygo

None of their business? Sometimes, it just is.

If I'm walking down the street, minding my own business, let's say....wearing a Saor Alba badge, and the policeman thinks I'm looking for trouble, he can think on. None of his business. And I can tell him so.

If we all have to have ID cards, and he's allowed to ask me what I'm up to and to show him my ID....not good.

Alegrias1 this is a voter ID card for voting, we are not being asked to carry identification with us at all times.

I do not have a photo driving license, just the old paper one, the only form of photo ID I have is my passport, when it is sent away for renewal I am left with no photo ID.

I believe the voting system is rather different in Scotland?

Mollygo

None of their business? Sometimes, it just is.

When and why? It is highly unlikely I will be stopped anywhere, but I would think differently if I was black, young, 'alternative' perhaps. I am so exasperated that so many people are prepared to just roll over using the 'nothing to hide' defence.

If they knew what your badge represented they might well stop you

GrannyGravy13

Alegrias1 this is a voter ID card for voting, we are not being asked to carry identification with us at all times.

I do not have a photo driving license, just the old paper one, the only form of photo ID I have is my passport, when it is sent away for renewal I am left with no photo ID.

I believe the voting system is rather different in Scotland?

Yes I know that GG13 but I think the two things were getting talked about as though they were the same thing. So you can just read my first post

I'm not sure about the voting system being "different" in Scotland but from what I can gather the Bill covers the whole UK. I expect that's why Ian Blackford was a bit irate about it.

I hadn’t realised that this was only the voter ID thread. Mea culpa for that.
If you’re walking down the street wearing any badge and the policeman thinks you’re looking for trouble, you could still be arrested, taking to the police station, fingerprinted etc. with or without ID. If that happened, would you claim to be someone else?

Dinahmo

If they knew what your badge represented they might well stop you

Mollygo

I hadn’t realised that this was only the voter ID thread. Mea culpa for that.
If you’re walking down the street wearing any badge and the policeman thinks you’re looking for trouble, you could still be arrested, taking to the police station, fingerprinted etc. with or without ID. If that happened, would you claim to be someone else?

No, but you can bet I'd be suing them quick as you like. You don't get to arrest people for walking down the street in this country, even if you don't like their badges.

Sorry to post this on the voting ID thread, but that’s where your post is.
GillT57- from what I know, the ‘black, young, ‘alternative’ groups who are getting stopped more frequently anyway.
I don’t agree with stopping them for just the being black, young or ‘alternative’ reason, but how would an ID card make it worse?

Because it gives the police a valid reason for stopping them - to ask for ID. And they should give a reason if they want to stop and search someone but unfortunately they can say what they like and who's going to believe the (possibly) innocent victim.

I originally mentioned stop and search on here because I think that voter fraud is almost non - existent and I do think that the govt's reasons are insidious.