The culture war against wokism has been Boris Johnson’s creation and he is being caught out for it.

I don't think Johnson is as popular as he thinks he is. Back benchers are giving him a headache, senior ones especially, and he has a small coterie of yes men and women who will stick the knife in his back when the time is right. Even his much lauded 'Freedom Day' is a damp squib, not the triumph he expected, but a series of warnings from medical experts, politicians and others. Even the red top tabloids ae finding it hard to hurrah anything he does. They ( he and Patel in particular) have read the country wrong. The football saga is still ongoing, and the suggestion that one of the country's best loved charities and bravest volunteer group, the RNLI could be prosecuted for following Maritime Law is a step too far. Even the Foreign Aid budget cuts are not the populist success that he thought they would be; apart from the usual suspects who are comfortable with children dying as long as they are foreign children, most people are horrified at what it is doing to the people who need the aid, and to the country's image on the international stage.

GillT57

"Even the Foreign Aid budget cuts are not the populist success that he thought they would be; apart from the usual suspects who are comfortable with children dying as long as they are foreign children, most people are horrified at what it is doing to the people who need the aid, and to the country's image on the international stage."

This reminds me of when I rattled tins for Save the Children. Many people wouldn't donate because they thought all the money collected was to help foreigners.

I hold Johnson responsible for many things, all of them utterly terrible but I am not sure I hold him responsible for the war on woke, I think he saw something happening and exploited it, it's pretty much how he has behaved throughout his time in politics. I think the culture wars or whatever you want to call them are much too complicated to be lain at the feet of one man.

Yes I agree Galaxy, he is responsible for a lot of things that are wrong in this country, but the war on woke, whatever that means, has been exploited by him (unsuccesfully) but not started by him.

If he successfully splits the country by picking up something that vaguely existed already, he is responsible for the outcome.

He has attempted to find groups that can be "othered" which is dispicable and one of the first rules in the "how to become a dictator" list.

PippaZ

If he successfully splits the country by picking up something that vaguely existed already, he is responsible for the outcome.

He has attempted to find groups that can be "othered" which is dispicable and one of the first rules in the "how to become a dictator" list.

Agreed 100%.

I think it is scary the way people are willing to turn on one another and get really nasty, just because someone disagrees with them.

Of course people have always had differing views on politics and religion etc, but either it's me getting older or people are getting ruder.

We've even been fed a vocabulary, with insults like 'remoaners' on one side and 'gammon' on the other, then all the vilifying of 'experts' and 'boffins'. Then the 'intergenerational conflict' that lies about one generation ('millennials') suffering at the hands of another ('boomers'), and the idea that people on benefits are 'scroungers'. Covid brought 'covidiots' - a term to use against those who dealt with the pandemic differently.

During the first lockdown I found it shocking that neighbours were so keen to 'shop' one another for apparent infringements of rules, or for buying 'non-essential' items, and that those who didn't take part in the organised clapping (which would now called 'gesture politics') were shamed on social media.

It seems like a perfect storm - divide people into manufactured groups, with names to differentiate them, so pretty much all of us will fall into one group or another, and can be picked off in our turn, then convince everyone that life should be made difficult for those in groups different from our own.

As a nation we have bought willingly into it all. I hope we turn back before it is too late.

Wanted to know the history of woke, wondered if anyone was interested,
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/woke-meaning-word-history-b1790787.html.

He didn't start that split, that was already there, it's too easy to blame one person I think. Believe me if I thought blaming Johnson was the answer I would go for it, but I honestly dont think it is.

Galaxy

He didn't start that split, that was already there, it's too easy to blame one person I think. Believe me if I thought blaming Johnson was the answer I would go for it, but I honestly dont think it is.

I'm not saying he did. I think it started with Brexit, which of course Johnson did not support until he saw that it would benefit him, but he (and Cummings when he was in favour) exploited it and have stoked it where they could.

I think Brexit was the result of a certain type of division not the cause if it.

So what do you think caused the division then?

Doodledog

So what do you think caused the division then?

I think it was years of tory 'austerity', which caused a recession, cut vital services and continued the tory narrative of the 'undeserving'. People with nothing to lose are ripe for manipulation.

Yes, I think that happened, without a doubt, and I think that that was part of the reason behind some of the Brexit vote. I also think that Brexit made divisions worse, not least by the way that the Remain campaign equated a Leave vote with racism and a low level of education that allowed Leavers to be manipulated.

I don't think that it was the cause of the divisions between age groups, or the resentment of 'experts', though. I think that those things have been created quite deliberately, so that people are too busy defending their own corners to band together and see the whole picture.

The talk amongst Labour supporters and activists is just as bad though, all this talk about the 'Metropolitan Elite' versus Northern 'working class'. It is all about division, distraction; if you can alienate people from each other. Last night on FB, local page, there was a lively discussion about some very expensive new houses being built. Several people claimed this was due to asylum seekers.

Yes as much as it grieves me the left have been part of it as well, I think in addition social media promotes tribalism, I think the division that led to Brexit was partly caused by communities being ignored and in many cases despised for years, there was also a failure by those who supported immigration to be able to show the benefits of immigration and the benefits of the EU.

Last night on FB, local page, there was a lively discussion about some very expensive new houses being built. Several people claimed this was due to asylum seekers.



Please, GillT57, have you any idea what the rationale was for that statement...

Sorry that sounds as though I dont believe in the benefits of immigration which I very much do. But for years we had the drip drip of wonky bananas etc and there was no positive counter narrative. They and dont ask me to define 'they'! were too complacent that everyone thought in the way they did.

I cannot remember the exact phrase, but it has been said that Johnson's government managed to convince the barely managing that it was the fault of the not managing, people blame downwards when they should be blaming up. Don't criticise the people claiming top up benefits, blame the employers who are not paying enough. I have a cousin whose life has not gone quite as well as she would have liked, some her fault, some not, but she has been convinced that it is all the fault of the 'illegals', that somehow a dinghy load of frightened young men from Syria have taken what should have been hers.

Please, GillT57, have you any idea what the rationale was for that statement

It is a hard one to untangle, that's for sure. I did point out that very few terrified Syrians would be coming here from Dover to buy a £400k+ house. Someone else pointed out that we have taken only a few migrant families in our main town, and that they have to go on the housing list like everyone else, but you know how it is; everyone knows someone who lives next door to a migrant family who were given a five bedroom house, fully furnished, and a car. And so the division and resentment continues, based on urban myths and downright lies.

The talk amongst Labour supporters and activists is just as bad though, all this talk about the 'Metropolitan Elite' versus Northern 'working class'.
That’s what I meant when I said the Remain campaign equated a Leave vote with low education and racism. As a Remainer myself I found that uncomfortable, and that it would feed into the ‘elite’ stereotype.

Don’t want to get into the politics if it but can’t stand the term woke, sick of hearing it. Just treat people as you find them.

I don'r remember the Remain campaign equating leave supporters with low education and racism before the EU referendum, but I do know that careful unbiased analyses of the characteristics of leave voters after the referendum did find that to be true, along with other findings such as that older people were more likely to have voted leave.

Yes but I believe that those who are older and those who have lower educational attainment are entitled to have their voice heard in a democracy.

They have had their voice heard I wonder how many now that they can see the damage wish they had voted differently

Blimey I must let my AC know they are old and uneducated, perhaps they dreamt their A levels and degrees!