Policing the party

Exactly Grany.

Astonishing thread pulls together five years of Labour right sabotage and war to destroy Corbyn and the left

Superb summary thread by @iwaslabour distills betrayal by so-called ‘moderates’ on full display

skwawkbox.org/2021/07/24/astonishing-thread-pulls-together-five-years-of-labour-right-sabotage-and-war-to-destroy-corbyn-and-the-left/#comments

Septimia

We should be voting for individuals or policies that represent what we want - not blindly for a party because we've always voted for that party.

Hallelujah to that ???

Gagajo ''But if we just have a replacement Boris, what is the point?''

this oft repeating statement is totally unfair. How can anyone equate Starmer for Johnson?

The First Past the Post system produces impossible monsters. In the vast majority of Democratic countries, neither the 'right' or 'the left' is forced into one big lump, but is split into different factions which have big differences within. Currently both Labour and Cons are totally artificial constructs for all the wrong reasons.

The fact is however, that if the 'left' of the Labour Party does not support Starmer, and does not unite, the FPTP system will ensure that they are never re-elected.

Labour shuts down London conference entirely in middle of chair’s speech to prevent her criticising Keir Starmer

Starmer’s sockpuppets and apologists now desperately trying to claim Kathryn Johnson was being libellous, which delegates say is a lie. She will have chance to deliver it in full on Socialist Telly on Monday night

Labour has outraged members today by shutting down its London conference in the middle of the outgoing Conference Arrangements Committee chair’s speech, apparently because she was speaking critically of Keir Starmer – and, ironically, of the party’s anti-democratic conduct.

skwawkbox.org/2021/07/25/labour-shuts-down-london-conference-entirely-in-middle-of-chairs-speech-to-prevent-her-criticising-keir-starmer/#comments

Does anyone remember Starmer's promise to unite the party? Can anyone explain to me how getting rid of people is uniting anything? I know I am to the left of most on GN, but if we are looking at party policies and Labour values I am quite willing to debate them. Starmer now seems to be culling the party he has already substantially reduced in number. No debate, no discussion, no appeal. It isn't Labour. It isn't democratic and there is no evidence that it will win votes and bring power. I am wondering the last cries of a drowning man?

He didn’t cull Party members trisher they just left because Corbyn didn’t succeed in gaining Number Ten.
And if anti-Semites left the Party then good riddance eh?
The only chance Labour has to gain power is to come nearer to the centre ground in politics.You may not like it, and many very left wing members won’t like it, but there is no other way.

Starmer might bankrupt the party before he has the chance to take it to "the middle ground" whatever that is.

M0nica

Most anti-semitism has nothing to do with apartheid in Israel. It is just good old fashioned anti-semitism that goes back to to the early days of christianity. Cherry picking one small corner of anti-semitism and using that to symbolise the whole is - anti-semitic.

But there are people who deliberately link "traditional" anti-semiticism to opposing the modern Israeli state and support for Palestine.

Where have I suggested anything else, but the bulk of person to person antisemitism has nothing to do with Israel. it is simply being prejudiced against someone because they are jewishs.

M0nica

Where have I suggested anything else, but the bulk of person to person antisemitism has nothing to do with Israel. it is simply being prejudiced against someone because they are jewishs.

I don't disagree with you. My interpretation of anti-semiticism is the the same as yours, but it is a fact that there are people who call out criticism of the Israeli state and support for Palestine as anti-semitic. That's where the argument becomes muddled. It's rumoured that the Israeli state and hard-liners are behind propaganda which jumps on anything with a hint of criticism of the state. My personal belief is that it's true that there is propaganda, but also that it's exaggerated by those against the Israeli state and "classic" anti-semites. The current scenario can't be explained by the historic interpretation of classical anti-semiticism.

One only has to read comments by people who called Corbyn an anti-semite to know that there's a different agenda. I don't believe for one moment that Corbyn has ever been anti-semitic. However, he has called out what is going on in Palestine and that's where there's a conflict of interest. Palestinians and Muslims in general are the world's current bogeymen and I think Corbyn is an instinctive supporter of the underdogs.

The issue is that once a person has a label as anti-semitic, many people interpret that as being anti Jew, including being a supporter of the holocaust and it becomes taboo. I think Corbyn was too naive and/or convinced that he was right to see what was going on around him. He didn't seem able to understand that some people aren't quite so anti-racist/anti-semitic as he is.

Starmer has a problem to sort out and he can't just ignore it, as Corbyn did.

And if anti-Semites left the Party then good riddance eh?
But they haven't. The people who were in head office and who were responsible for delaying dealing with complaints about anti-semitism to blacken Corbyn, were re-instated by Starmer.
Whereas the "Wrong sort of Jew" like Naomi Wimborne-Idrissi has been thrown out!

I think Corbyn always had an eye to the main chance and enjoyed being awkward for the sake of it. He espoused the Palestinian cause and consorted with its leaders.

You cannot do that and not be antisemitic in actions and words, because, even a hint that you were not antisemitic and the Palestinians would have broken every connection with him. For the Palstinian terrorist leaders it was all or nothing, if you were pro Palestinian you were anti Israel and anti semitic. For the terrorists the two come as a package.

But that is pure assumption MOnica. IF there is evidence, let's see it.

M0nica

I think Corbyn always had an eye to the main chance and enjoyed being awkward for the sake of it. He espoused the Palestinian cause and consorted with its leaders.

You cannot do that and not be antisemitic in actions and words, because, even a hint that you were not antisemitic and the Palestinians would have broken every connection with him. For the Palstinian terrorist leaders it was all or nothing, if you were pro Palestinian you were anti Israel and anti semitic. For the terrorists the two come as a package.

I'm not defending Palestinian terrorists, but do you seriously think that the way Israel is treating Palestinians in Gaza or the West Bank is acceptable?

You appear to be claiming that people who oppose the Israeli state are anti-semitic, which contradicts what you were saying earlier.

M0nca Christian Aid are currently asking people to e-mail the Prime Minister asking for him to apply pressure to end the blockade of Gaza. Are they anti-semitic? www.christianaid.org.uk/get-involved/campaigns/stand-palestinians-and-israelis-call-lasting-peace-today

No, because they are not consorting with those governing Gaza and their concern is based entirely on humanitarian considerations.

Jeremy talks to people he doesn't consort he is very well respected abroad unlike here with the MSM smear campaign and labour right ect against him.

Mt Corbyn must find all that respect from abroad very comforting when there are so few in this country who have any respect for him.

What about Forde Report

Isn't this hypocritical when you and David Evans have just sacked
@UKLabour
staff and are hiring on insecure contracts?
You can't convince the nation that you support workers if you don't support the party's own workers.
Actions speak louder than words.

Sacking own staff, suggesting 2% for NHS staff, not taxing the rich, supporting austerity measures etc etc. What a great platform to build upon!

M0nica You obviously move in very different circles. Here's Mr Corbyn outside the Sage in Gateshead with a crowd of supporters. Most of whom recognise his lifetime of work for peace and equality. Which is why he has 2 Peace prizes.

That was in 2017 trisher wasn’t it? When he was leader? We’ve moved on since then.
www.equalityhumanrights.com/sites/default/files/investigation-into-antisemitism-in-the-labour-party.pdf

So Casdon would you like to tell me anything Starmer has done to implement the recommendations of the investigation?
For example that the Leader's office shouldn't interfere in due process in the party
You've put a link to the report. Can you tell me how many of its recommendations Starmer has enacted?

Memories are shorter than I thought - the party suspended Corbyn as a consequence of the report if you remember. I won’t sport with peoples intelligence by pointing out that it’s all there, on the Internet, the Labour Party response to the report, the committee, the implementation difficulties, the debacle in Liverpool, etc. etc. Starmer is a good and honorable man, but he can’t walk on water and implement years of endemic bad practice in 9 months.

There is nothing more damning than describing someone as good and honourable, but

Sadly, Keith Starmer is a good and honourable man, but he is temperamentally not a politician and is totally unsuited for the unprincipled cut and thrust of adversarial politics.