Policing the party

We can have our own options of him of course, but that doesn’t mean he won’t ensure that the party implements the action plan Monica - I believe he will do his utmost to make sure it happens despite the naysaying from the left.

Latest opinion polls show the tide is beginning to turn too.
c.newsnow.co.uk/A/1089190066?-850:14274

Casdon

Latest opinion polls show the tide is beginning to turn too.
c.newsnow.co.uk/A/1089190066?-850:14274

I've mentioned this before. How Labour aren't streets ahead at this time I have no idea.

Mid term of a normal government usually shows opposition in the lead.

Even now they haven't managed it.

Well the Conservatives have become a completely different party- chucking out the moderates and taking over UKIP. they should maybe change their name as well.

The pandemic has predisposed the public to support the party in power Zoejory, which always seems to happen at times of national crisis (they want to feel safe probably, so put more faith in the leaders). However, the tide is turning, despite the disarray remaining in the Labour Party.

Casdon

The pandemic has predisposed the public to support the party in power Zoejory, which always seems to happen at times of national crisis (they want to feel safe probably, so put more faith in the leaders). However, the tide is turning, despite the disarray remaining in the Labour Party.

I tend to agree with you, Casdon. If it hadn't been for covid I think that we'd be feeling the effects of Brexit more strongly and the opposition would be more popular. They are gaining round, now, though...

gaining ground

I wonder is it anti-semitic to refuse to engage with some Jews, because they are left wing?
www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/statement/labours-action-plan-for-driving-out-antisemitism-will-do-no-such-thing/

If their modus operandi is out of sync with the majority of the Jewish communities, particularly those within the UK then yes trisher I’d say it isn’t anti Semitic, in the same way that parties don’t negotiate with the National Front, or extreme religious sects for example.

It would also be helpful if you could post more balanced views of these issues rather than from the perspective of the left wing only?

Casdon I'm left wing I post left wing views. You don't like them that's fine, you don't have to read them. Why on earth should I post something I don't believe in?
Can you imagine the shrieking headlines if Corbyn had excluded a whole group of Jews? Say the right wing Jewish Board of Deputies? The accusations of anti-semitism would have deafened us all. Jewish Labour have a long and proud history of supporting the Labour Party. They are experienced and knowledgeable. They should be listened to.

Corbyn did effectively alienate Jews in the UK though trisher because he knew about but didn’t deal effectively with anti-semitism in the party. There is no excuse for that whatever the factions. It’s a bit rich of you to criticise Starmer for not managing to do what Corbyn couldn’t. At least some progress is being made now, although clearly not to the satisfaction of the left, which would be impossible.

Anyway, this is going round and round and we are destined not to agree - as usual I’m afraid.

trisher

I wonder is it anti-semitic to refuse to engage with some Jews, because they are left wing?
www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/statement/labours-action-plan-for-driving-out-antisemitism-will-do-no-such-thing/

Agree trisher

Comment

The Right has painted itself into a corner. Having concocted accusations of anti-semitism in order to achieve a political objective, it now finds it necessary grimly to carry on, so that its calumnies are not shown up to be merely opportunistic. The more it invents rules, stifles debate, prefers exclusion to education, the flimsier its arguments are seen to be, and the more they divert from the real task of confronting serious anti-semitism.

The right ??

Who’s that Grany.....anyone who’s a member of the LP who isn’t a Marxist?

lemongrove .
It’s a cold and lonely place to be on the right of the left - or it would be if it wasn’t so crowded here.

The thing that gets me (well, one of many) is that the right wingers on GN winged on and on about how adored Corbyn was, Corbynistas this, the Corbyn cultists. On and on. And pretty much EVERY leftie on here has LONG since moved on. He's gone. We've long since moved on.

But STILL the right-wingers keep harpying on. Shows who the truly obsessed were and it ain't us lefties.

It’s not actually all that long since he faded from centre stage, and of course you had to move on from that embarrassment Gaga so am not surprised you don’t want it mentioned.
However, he needs talking about because he ruined the LP and their chances of getting into power, not to mention welcoming into the fold all the hard left who Kinnock managed to get rid of.
Yes, he’s gone but not forgotten and is the reason that the Conservatives did so well at the GE.You know that, I know that, everybody knows that.Unless Starmer can find a way to
Either unite or kick out the hard left again there is a problem.
I think he could be a good Leader but needs to have the courage of his convictions, and his handling of the Angela Rayner was weak, he wanted to fire her, so he should have done, not allow himself to be talked out of it and hand her even more power.

But GagaJo the reference you used in the original post you made when you started the thread related to Corbyn? I agree with you on one thing though, he needs to be forgotten about.

Keir Starmer has been trumped in the row over Boris Johnson repeatedly lying to Parliament – by the new recruit he so warmly welcomed only recently.

John Bercow, the former Commons Speaker, said Labour backbencher Dawn Butler was right to claim the prime minister had lied – and called for “absurd” parliamentary rules to be changed so MPs can accuse one another of lying in the chamber.

In a joint article, written with Ms Butler for The Times, he wrote:

“The glaring weakness of the system is that someone lying to tens of millions of citizens knows he or she is protected by an ancient rule.

“They face no sanction. By contrast, an MP with the guts to tell the truth is judged to be in disgrace. It is absurd.”
Contrast this with party leader Starmer’s response, which was to say he agreed with what Ms Butler had said – but then to insist that Acting Deputy Speaker Judith Cummins was right to order the Labour MP to leave:

And not a word of support for changing the system.

This is just more evidence that Starmer is not fit to lead the Labour Party.

He simply doesn’t have the imagination to realise that rules are not immutable and may be changed – despite the fact that he works in a place where the rules that govern the whole of the UK are changed on a daily basis.

Ms Butler’s claims were factually accurate, by the way – the organisation Full Fact has checked them and supported them.

Casdon

lemongrove .
It’s a cold and lonely place to be on the right of the left - or it would be if it wasn’t so crowded here.

Casdon if you imagine lemon is in any way a LP supporter it just shows how blurred the line between the Tories, and those who say they are Labour, but hold right wing views, is.

But don't worry the LP has a leader who is going to unite the party. Quite what it will stand for, or who will support it is an unknown.
Doesn't it worry you though that a leader of the LP should promise one thing and do another? Shouldn't that be left to the Tories?

trisher I very much doubt that Casdon imagines that I have been a LP supporter ......
Just because I have a good grasp of what the LP needs to become ( more centre ground) to get into power.
If you prefer them to be very left wing and somehow ‘pure’ they will never bet into Number Ten. You must see that as an intelligent person.

Get not bet.?

Surely if we change the rules to allow MPs to call one another 'a liar' at will, the rare occasion when it does happen would lose its impact and shock value. It was the 'shock' value of DB using the term that gave it impact in the news, and well done to her. It meant Labour was on the front page for a bit longer. If all MPs call one another liars because they disagree with them it loses all value. I seem to remember Yvette Cooper using an obscure procedure to great effect, including having DC scamper back from the Mansion House in full regalia. I rather imagine many of these obscure rules come from a time when swords and duels were still in play. By all means get rid of ones that are really irrelevant because of the passage of time, but not those which can be used, rarely, for political effect. I want serious debate in Parliament, not a 'liarfest' like ping pong between the benches.
Keir Starmer calls BJ out on his lies in PMQs in just as effective a way, using BJ's own utterances to point out his many inconsistencies. The wider public notices, hence his slippage in the ratings.

lemon it's a debate I've had many times I don't think there is any support (or only very little) for a Tory -lite party. There is absolutely no evidence for it. Few people in the last years of Blair's government bothered to vote. They couldn't see the difference. People in 2017 voted massively for a left wing party, only the DUP kept the Tories in power. And that with someone as leader vilified in the media and on GN.
The idea that I am somehow far left is ludicrous. Far left would include the return of Clause 4 and mass nationalisation. No one's asking for that. But moving a party further to the right when it has already shifted massively isn't a good idea. And the idea that Starmer is going to restore the LP is ludicrous. There's little support in the party for him. Only the PLP and the people he reinstated at Head Office are behind him, and they will dump. him once they realise how useless he really is.

I think you make a very good point Devorgilla