Ken Loach may be kicked out of Labour

There is a slight difference between putting MPs on the front bench who support you and removing whole swathes of ordinary LP members witout any process, examination or questioning

And Tom Watson left .

I didn’t form my opinion of Corbyn from the newspapers but by his own words and actions.

Maybe Keir is far more cut throat than he comes across as. And, with the current government that can only be a good thing. We’ve got to get them out and all this infighting isn’t going to enable that. I really don’t want to spend the remainder of my life under a Conservative government.

trisher

There is a slight difference between putting MPs on the front bench who support you and removing whole swathes of ordinary LP members witout any process, examination or questioning

Oh yes, I can see that 100%.

But then we go back to the realities of First Past the Post- and then ...

Neither do I but with the split in the Labour Party again !

Kali2 and if there was some sort of a debate going on between the two sections. to acheive a balanced alternative between whatever Starmer &co support and the policies which emerged under Corbyn I could see a party emerging which might defeat the Tories. As it is all I can see is a left leaning group who are not LP members because they've been thrown out, an LP which has moved more to the right than Tony Blair, and some people in the middle who have abandoned Labour because they found the undemocratic witch hunt unacceptable. There certainly won't be a party than can win elections.

Exactly.

John McDonnell’s Labour group is taking aim at Keir Starmer

Enter McDonnell and Co.

The Labour group led by John McDonnell has issued a furious statement over the party’s banning of four left-wing groups. It also takes aim at Keir Starmer directly – saying he has brought the party “almost to its knees”.

The Labour Representation Committee (LRC) began in 1900, but its current incarnation dates back to 2004. It says its aim is:

to fight for power within the Labour Party and trade unions and to appeal to the tens of thousands who, during the Tony Blair years, turned away from our party in disillusion and despair.

McDonnell is its president, and the Fire Brigades Union’s Matt Wrack is the chair. On 27 July, it weighed in on the banning of the four groups. The LRC’s statement condemns the move “in the strongest terms”, adding:

Starmer promised in his leadership bid to bring unity to the party. He spoke of fighting for the underdog and of his track record in defending human rights. There can no longer be any doubt that this was simply a means to gain control of our party.

You can read the full LRC statement here. It criticises Starmer ‘upsetting’ “loyal voters”; it takes aim at the state of the party’s finances, and asserts:

The establishment wing of the party has declared war on the membership – and, in particular, the left of the party.

“Defend the Left”

The LRC is clear on what needs to happen:

We need to unite and resist. The future of our party is at stake. That’s why the LRC is part of Defend the Left and is working to get trade union branches and local Labour lefts to sign up to it.

Defend the Left is a campaign to stop Labour’s purge of the left. It has a petition which you can sign here. The group says that it urges:

everyone who wants to build a united, fighting opposition to the Tories to join together against the attempt by the right to reintroduce a list of proscribed organisations. No doubt, other socialist groups will be added to the list, should this first round of proscriptions go through without a hitch.

‘No one is safe’ from the purge

As the LRC sums up:

This is already the thick end of the wedge – no one who defends socialist ideas is safe unless we act together.

So, is Starmer’s ongoing purge the end of the left of the Labour Party? Clearly not if McDonnell and countless others have anything to do with it.

I think after the video in this Express piece
There one about Keir Starmer getting rid of the left proscribing groups Saying this is unpresidented in Labour Party it's like a looser hitting back at membership when what they've decided on didn't work out.

www.thecanary.co/uk/analysis/2021/07/30/john-mcdonnells-labour-group-is-taking-aim-at-keir-starmer/?fbclid=IwAR0SuOm2WEQFXajVkM0CsKdBFAG8Jpdv0CKWIwcb3wmNaETdEaUEOWJv8K4#user-comments

Wrong link this one

www.express.co.uk/news/royal/1469704/queen-news-royal-family-latest-monarchy-billboard-republic/amp?__twitter_impression=true

Starmer need to purge even more....his actions don’t go far enough.

Theres a petition taking off chng.it/nzQRKD5nHn

I’ve seen the petition, but don’t know how it’s going to work. Even if there are a million signatures, it can’t force a party to do anything- that is for the members, and rightly so. Anyone can sign a petition, whether or not they have the best interests of the party at heart.

Doodledog you do realise the irony in that post don't you. Starmer isn't asking the membership if he can kick people out the party he's just doing it. If there was some sort of due process and the membership were being consulted no one would be arguing. It's not just people who are members f the leftwing groups he has decided are unacceptable, the chair of CLPs who passed resolutions or who even discussed Corbyn's suspension have been suspended.

so we just wait to lose the next election - that will really take us forwards and stop the catastrophic Tories. They must be rubbing their hands and wallets in glee.

lemongrove

Starmer need to purge even more....his actions don’t go far enough.

Some wouldn't vote for Labour if he purged every single member. What value are the views of dyed in the wool Conservatives when it comes to getting Labour back into power?

Very confusing, thousands left the Labour Party because of Tony Blair who won three consecutive general elections, yet
thousands joined when Corbyn was leader and he lost two
consecutive general elections

Membership of the party isn’t the indicator of election success though, the Tory Party has far less members than Labour, times have moved on.

Truly and honestly, I do not know what the answer is.

But a far left LP, and a divided onw- has no change with the FPTP electoral system. That is the fact.

I very much doubt voters at the next general election will
have Ken Loach in mind

Political parties do need money though, and while I understand that Keir Starmer would prefer larger corporate donations, and has attracted a couple of these, the large increase in membership under the previous leader left the funds in a very healthy position, not only from membership fees but also from a large number of small donations, which all added up.

Expelling or making members feel so unwelcome that they have left, has meant the loss of all their contributions, and Labour is now having to make staff members redundant.

To make up the shortfall, if Keir Starmer does manage to attract some more corporate donors, they will want their money to influence policy.

Anniebach It's not really that confusing. There were a lot of people who were appalled and disgusted about us being the co-instigators of an illegal invasion of Iraq. However, there were probably many more who weren't that bothered - or not bothered enough to join a protest march or lodge any sort of complaint with their MPs. At that time, Blair was improving schools and public amenities in general (albeit often through the device of "private finance initiatives" that, in the long term, have proved to be extortionately expensive). People felt fairly upbeat and what was happening hundred of miles away was not a major concern.

The majority of people in this country are getting by - some with a certain amount of difficulty but many managing quite nicely. Many - but not all - aren't really that bothered about zero hours contracts or the degradation of any parts of the public and social infrastructure that don't really affect them. The picture changes, of course, when they are affected - when they have an elderly partner with significant health needs who is unable to access proper support or when they are the victim of a life-changing, violent crime but have the prospect of waiting perhaps two years before their assailant is tried in court. Then it hits home that our public institutions are not, as is often implied, a wasteful drain on the economy but vital to the health and welfare of everybody.

The Conservative Party appeals to those who are getting by OK and who have no major economic or social issues to contend with , or who believe that dire inequality is inevitable and not a product of political decisions. They would perhaps vote for a "watered down" Labour if they were at some stage dissatisfied with their own personal lot, but never for people like Corbyn who are portrayed as either naive crackpots or dangerous revolutionaries who threaten the "stability" of the political and economic system.

In my view, the Labour Party must be a counterpoint to the Conservative Party, which, in the main, is financed and supported by rich and powerful individuals and organisations, including most of the media. It is, of course, a dilemma. Should the party ditch most of its founding principles for the sake of winning votes and exile those on the left who champion them? I can understand why many people say there's no point in having principles without the power to implement policies based on those principles. But I feel there is no point having power if you have no core principles - or principles so akin to those of your supposed political opponents that it hardly seems worth voting.

Eleothan, brilliantly said. All of it. But your last point particularly I totally agree with and it's how I feel now.

trisher

Doodledog you do realise the irony in that post don't you. Starmer isn't asking the membership if he can kick people out the party he's just doing it. If there was some sort of due process and the membership were being consulted no one would be arguing. It's not just people who are members f the leftwing groups he has decided are unacceptable, the chair of CLPs who passed resolutions or who even discussed Corbyn's suspension have been suspended.

Yes, as a member I am well aware that I haven't been asked about expulsions.

I don't see what's ironic about questioning the point of the petition, though. Nobody has to take any notice of it, and whilst I may approve of the basis of the petition I don't think that non-members should be able to dictate policy.

It's a mess, though, I grant you that.

Elotethan 'It is, of course, a dilemma. Should the party ditch most of its founding principles for the sake of winning votes and exile those on the left who champion them? I can understand why many people say there's no point in having principles without the power to implement policies based on those principles. But I feel there is no point having power if you have no core principles - or principles so akin to those of your supposed political opponents that it hardly seems worth voting.'

yes, great post and my respect. But then what? I you truly saying that you'd rather Johnson and his disastrous, destructive cabale got back in? Are you really saying that Starmer = Johnson?

Johnson knows that he won't be able to stop enquiries into Covid and also how contract were avoided, etc- for much longer. He also knows the LP is hugely divided - and there is every chance he will call a very early election in order to take full advantage.

If Labour comes together with clever alliances, it will obliterate them. If Labour does not- it will allow the Cons to win again and say they have the concensus of the people to continue privatisation of the NHS and the destruction of social care.

So, are you truly saying that this would be better than Starmer?
I find that impossible to believe.

Thank you for this respectful discussion.

As for me- I do not 'belong' to any party, as Lucky says does not make sense- everyone should think about the current policies and what is right for now, and the world of large groups of miners, steel workers, ship yards, etc, has long gone- we live in a different world now, and people have different aspirations. I have voted and belonged to 3 parties in the past, Labour, Lib Dems and Greens- and I have no qualms in saying I voted for Labour last time. My vote, btw, has never ever counted - because of where I lived- apart from local elections. And I really want the First Past the Post system to go as it disenfranchises huge proportion of voters. I've done it every time, but it is hard to go and vote, when you know it will end up straight in the bin.

It also means that both Labour and Cons are made up of huge and very disparate groups of people- and have become totally unrepresentative of their extrememly varied base. In any other country with some form of proportional representation- the 'Left' of the Party, and the 'right' and possibly the centre, would de divided in separate, more representative groups.