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Is our democracy for sale?

(18 Posts)
Whitewavemark2 Tue 03-Aug-21 08:19:29

An article in the FT.

Cronyism and corruption are the characteristics of this government, but it is also attacking and trying to emasculate things like the judicial system, civil rights and the media.

We should be worried

25Avalon Tue 03-Aug-21 08:43:16

What about the Chair’s Circle to have the ear of Starmer and Tony Blair’s purchase a peerage? It’s not just the Conservative party. As the FT report goes on to say it is a blight.All of them have paying supporters.

This report says nothing about “ attacking and trying to emasculate things like the judicial system, civil rights and the media”. I think you just added that yourself WWM2.

MayBee70 Tue 03-Aug-21 09:30:45

I don’t think Starmer is in a position to change the judicial system in this country as he isn’t in a position of power so I’m not particularly bothered about what he gets up to at the moment. But this government have never hid the fact that they want to change it to give themselves more power over the law. It was the thing that worried me the most when they got that huge majority. Along with the NHS that is.

GrannyGravy13 Tue 03-Aug-21 09:49:26

Unfortunately both the current big Political Parties are the same…

MaizieD Tue 03-Aug-21 13:21:27

Political parties should all be state funded.

No donations = no corruption

Kali2 Tue 03-Aug-21 14:06:09

GG13 NO they are NOT.

nanna8 Tue 03-Aug-21 14:11:13

Don’t all political parties get involved with this sort of thing ? The unions fund Labour, business funds the Conservatives. Just a fact of life, nothing new.

GrannyGravy13 Tue 03-Aug-21 15:01:07

MaizieD

Political parties should all be state funded.

No donations = no corruption

How would the Unions react to that MaizieD ?

They are used to having a say in Labour Party , and have influenced/shaped policy over the years.

Dinahmo Tue 03-Aug-21 15:01:42

GrannyGravy13

Unfortunately both the current big Political Parties are the same…

Not much to worry about there. But over £250,000 donated by the Russians to the Tory party? That's another matter.

MaizieD Tue 03-Aug-21 15:51:03

GrannyGravy13

MaizieD

Political parties should all be state funded.

No donations = no corruption

How would the Unions react to that MaizieD ?

They are used to having a say in Labour Party , and have influenced/shaped policy over the years.

I should have included membership of a party. Membership fees would be fine so long as each member paid the same fee. No 'sliding scales' to gain preferential access.

Unions can still have a say, GG13 so long as they are mandated to by those of their members who include membership of the LP as part of their union fee.

As could other members who agreed with the principles that underpin the Labour Party.

In the same way, so could paid up members of any of the other parties.

State funding would be on top of what can be taken in membership fees and would be limited to a set amount for each party, in proportion to the size of their membership.

Particularly in regard to funds for elections.

Perhaps this might even provoke some debate about the real purpose of political parties and the functions of government.

Eloethan Tue 03-Aug-21 17:41:51

The unions funding Labour is totally different from a secretive group of ultra-wealthy individuals gaining priority access to high levels of government by means of paying vast amounts of money into Conservative Party coffers.

Everybody knows the unions make a significant contribution to the Labour Party and, over the last few years, a membership surge substantially increased Labour's finances. I believe there is now less money being paid by Unite and membership has declined significantly, so Labour is in financial difficulties. There have been very few large individual donations made to the Labour Party and they are generally one-offs and not regular payments.

grannyactivist Tue 03-Aug-21 17:52:42

I’m afraid I don’t believe we even have a democracy in this country. I have been politically active my whole life, but have nonetheless frequently been impotent to exert power at the ballot box because of our archaic FPTP system. And this is true for many people of all political persuasions. Unless every vote counts equally then we do not have a democracy.

Are our political parties for sale? Judging by the emerging evidence, then yes, they are. And there’s nothing remotely democratic about that either!!

M0nica Wed 04-Aug-21 14:07:23

Yes.

Katie59 Wed 04-Aug-21 14:49:02

The only consolation is that the UK is much less corrupt than most other nations. Undoubtedly favour is given to friends or party supporters, compared to the blatant corruption that is normal other countries, it’s very low level.
Other places you have to pay someone off to get anything done, they are not all in Africa either.

MaizieD Wed 04-Aug-21 14:59:14

Other places you have to pay someone off to get anything done,

I'm sure it won't be long before we get there!

The tolerance of corruption, or indifference to it, being shown is just awe inspiring. To just write it off as 'the UK is much less corrupt than most other nations' (which I don't actually believe any more) is extraordinary.
What a thing to be thankful about 👿

ayse Wed 04-Aug-21 15:03:33

I suspect our betters are just much better at hiding their corruption. They’ve had many, many years of practice.

FPTP is not democratic. It just pretends to be.

Grany Wed 04-Aug-21 18:27:36

From paying for peerages to the Queen’s lobbying, these six scandals lay bare the corruption of our country
Around the world, the wretched protest tirelessly against corrupt governments. Here the corruption is cleverly alibied and now normalised

inews.co.uk/opinion/from-paying-for-peerages-to-the-queens-lobbying-these-six-scandals-lay-bare-the-corruption-of-our-country-1132430

Grany Wed 04-Aug-21 18:34:57

Over the last week there have been fresh revelations about secret royal lobbying. The Scottish government was caught up in the row last week, defending the secrecy as necessary to maintain "the appearance of impartiality."

This excuse is, of course, nonsense. Impartiality has to be fact, not appearance.

Now Charles is accused of being involved in a cash-for-access scandal, agreeing to meet with rich and powerful people as part of a 'concierge' business that has close ties to the Conservative party.

This is why royal secrecy is such a problem. It allows lobbying to go on without any proper scrutiny, which erodes public trust in the political system.

With Charles and the Queen there's an added layer to all this: the royal consent rule that allows them to insist on changes to legislation going through parliament. It was new environmental laws passed by the Scottish parliament this year which have thrown up fresh questions about royal powers and secrets.

So we've set up a new petition aimed at the Scottish and Westminster parliaments, calling for an end to royal secrecy and the royal consent rule.

actionstorm.org/petitions/ban-royal-lobbying