Only 1 in 5 clear what ‘levelling up’ means. Do you know? If so what do you think it means

The wealthy do pay wealth tax, high Stamp Duty, Insurance Tax, Inheritance Tax, Capital Gains Tax, Income Tax on Pensions and a whole lot more. Plus they are paying a lot more VAT on the goods and services they buy

They don't pay them all at once, Katie59. What is more, if they are in paid employment they pay less National Insurance as a proportion of their income than do people on lower incomes, because NI contributions are capped at a certain level (and NI is a tax). If they have investment income as well as a salary they get an extra taxfree allowance for dividend income and then pay tax at a lower rate. Basic rate on dividends is only 7.5%. Any money invested certain ISAs is tax free.

Over all, the 'wealthy' actually pay a smaller percentage of their income in tax than do the poorer folks...

I agree with you *Katie59 that housing is the source of many of the country's financial troubles - not only does it make housing unaffordable for many, but it distorts how money is invested by diverting from investment in businesses. I'm afraid I don't agree that council tax shouldn't be increased for large properties. Lots of retired people actually have higher incomes than the average (mean) income and if they can't afford council tax they need to downsize.

The cost of housing, rented or owned is far too high, the only saving grace is social housing if you qualify. The supply of housing is restricted, in part because so many are single waged households these days. Many of the low waged workers are in the state sector so increasing wages is self defeating.

The only solution I can offer is to increase Council Tax on large properties but then a lot of retired people live in large properties. Maybe more housing concessions for low payed workers, they have my sympathy, it was never easy years ago, but never this hard.

Katie59 How do you explain that the equality gap in the UK is growing?

The value of assets continues to grow faster than any increase in incomes. That means that working people cannot ever catch up with the richest. For example, somebody earning the average (mean) wage earns less in a year than some people do from the increase in value of assets (especially property).

Doodledog, I fear your succinct post may be the depressing truth.

PippaZ

I would like someone to tell me just how we can level up without taxing wealth Mollygo. You're right. If that doesn't happen those with extreme wealth will escape the taxes as they always do (legally). Those "just managing" will be hit by the increased tax. Those not managing will have benefits reduced.

I will believe Johnson's intentions if he includes everyone, the taxation is progressive and he makes it work.

The wealthy do pay wealth tax, high Stamp Duty, Insurance Tax, Inheritance Tax, Capital Gains Tax, Income Tax on Pensions and a whole lot more. Plus they are paying a lot more VAT on the goods and services they buy

You can tax property when it is sold because there is cash available, you can’t tax it annually because there is no cash.

I think what it will mean will be loudly trumpeted investment in job creation in 'red wall' areas, which will bring low-paid insecure work that makes profits for rich people who live elsewhere.

Local employment figures may fall as a result, and this will be presented as having happened because of government policy and Brexit. People who are on benefits will be coerced into taking jobs and contributing their labour to the profits of the company owners, on pain of starvation and the approbation of workers who will be told that 'scroungers' are being paid directly from their taxes.

Insecurity of pay, uncertain employment and unsociable hours will mean that children grow up without parents or carers around when they need them, and their educational attainment will suffer, but they will form the next generation of the 'precariat', and profits won't be affected, so that's ok - there will be numerous pundits telling us that not everyone should be encouraged to stay in education anyway.

The economy of the areas concerned will appear to be booming, as it will be the companies' contribution to the GDP that is reported, and not the disparity between the wages of the workers and the dividends of the shareholders.

To me, "levelling up" should be about giving people more equal opportunities, which means a massive investment in education. It won't happen, of course, despite the promises.

Those who "have" will fight tooth and nail to retain what they have for themselves and their children, which is how inequality persists from one generation to the next and some children are born with a silver spoon in their mouths.

The only alternative is for the economy to expand, but at the moment we're witnessing the opposite.

I think this thread is proof that "levelling up" is a meaningless catchphrase.

PippaZ that’s what I meant, and you’re right. I don’t think the tax on wealth will be popular with anyone who has any money at any level, just that those with wealth will be better able to protect what they have.

Really Katie59. So the government are saying we will all be a bit better off but the gaps will still be just as wide?

I wouldn't be suprised if you are right but I'm not sure that this is what people voted for.

Leveling up means increasing the standard in general, wether it is housing or education or anything else, the problem is that it is a treadmill.
Someone will always be below average or still waiting, the NHS is a good example, treatment has advanced over the years, but there is still a waiting list, because demand is elastic.

I would like someone to tell me just how we can level up without taxing wealth Mollygo. You're right. If that doesn't happen those with extreme wealth will escape the taxes as they always do (legally). Those "just managing" will be hit by the increased tax. Those not managing will have benefits reduced.

I will believe Johnson's intentions if he includes everyone, the taxation is progressive and he makes it work.

Parsley3

It is meaningless. A true levelling up also involves a "levelling down "from the top and that won't ever happen.

Exactly. Even if those at the very top left themselves untouched, those in the middle would have to be levelled down. I could see that happening, but I’m not convinced that anything achieved by such a move would go to those below.

Incidentally, I think Goodwin makes some good points about what "levelling up" means. John Harris from the Guardian makes the same points in his journeys around the UK.

Matt Goodwin has right-wing views. Nevertheless, he has a good understanding of the rise of the radical right-wing and why people voted for Brexit.

He co-authored a book called "Revolt on the Right: Explaining Support for the Radical Right in Britain" with Rob Ford, with whom he frequently has disagreements on Twitter. I think the description "left behind voters" to describe people who feel alienated from political decision making came from this book.

He also co-authored a book called "Brexit: Why Britain Voted to Leave the European Union".

Probably BJs idea of obliterating 'dumbing down'.

I have never heard of it.

PippaZ

^I don't think that Goodwin intends that the State pays for any of that lot.^

I can't remember much about him but I think he was around a lot during Brexit wasn't he. Isn't the organisation he works for pretty far to the right economically?

This is the problem isn't it. There seems to be no detail from anyone.

Right wing, pro Brexit, free markets academic.

I don't think that Goodwin intends that the State pays for any of that lot.

I can't remember much about him but I think he was around a lot during Brexit wasn't he. Isn't the organisation he works for pretty far to the right economically?

This is the problem isn't it. There seems to be no detail from anyone.

JaneJudge

GillT57

JaneJudge

levelling up means spending 100k on art for downing street

I have been toying with starting a new thread about this Jane, but was worried that a few GNers will think I don't like Boris Johnson. As if I would let my feelings about him influence me eh?

I'm appalled tbh
I just hope he has bought it all from the end of year university shows, otherwise I have no faith he is levelling up at all

He (or was it Carrie?) has only bought two art works so I doubt very much that they are from end of year university shows. Not at getting on for £50k apiece..

PippaZ

I hope you don't mind Baggs but I copied the definitions he is suggesting. Matt Goodwin is currently Director of the Centre for UK Prosperity at the Legatum Institute.

We adopt a broader definition of levelling-up. We suggest true prosperity or a 'levelled up' community is where 3 things happen

(1) ppl live in "inclusive societies" that are supported by stable families, social capital and public trust in local institutions that are effective

(2) ppl live in "open economies" that are supported by high quality infrastructure, strong local investment environments & enterprise conditions for businesses, effective regulations and where entrepreneurs & firms can level-up from ground up.

^(3) communities have "empowered people" who can take control over their own lives, have strong mental & physical well-being, effective healthcare & education systems and healthy natural environments^

I don't think that Goodwin intends that the State pays for any of that lot.

i always thought it meant to make something the same as others so that everything is level, for istance taxes on things. in life i think it would mean to set a goal in your life and aim for it.

GillT57

JaneJudge

levelling up means spending 100k on art for downing street

I have been toying with starting a new thread about this Jane, but was worried that a few GNers will think I don't like Boris Johnson. As if I would let my feelings about him influence me eh?

I'm appalled tbh
I just hope he has bought it all from the end of year university shows, otherwise I have no faith he is levelling up at all

Not really.when I was working in 70s almost 100% of so called Head Offices were based in London! And I worked for English Calico then for GPO telephones.both London based as were the other companies I subsequently worked for from1989-2006 as well. Moving to work in head office meant to that London.......

The lack of affordable housing is probably the biggest scandal in this country. Thatcher made local authorities put the housing stock up for grabs at silly prices then denied them access to the funds to re stock depleted stock! She was excellent at selling the 'family silver' to raise money! Young people and now not so young people are permanently locked out of any type of affordable housing and at the mercy of ridiculously high private rents. One thing Tories will never do is authorise a huge national building programme of local authority/housing association building on the scale needed. The irony is- building homes stimulates EVERY single industry from construction workers to furnishings to appliances and generates massively to jobs market