Afghanistan; did we waste our time, and even worse, our soldiers lives?

It is tragic that so many soldiers (and civilians) died in this conflict. But questioning the validity of our actions at a political and strategic level does not mean that we do not appreciate the professionalism and dedication to the task of the soldiers who took part, nor that we do not mourn their lost lives and life-changing injuries.

There is no doubt in my mind that the actions we took were in vain and achieved nothing in the long term. Listening to the Taliban leaders on the news now makes that very clear: "We will be satisfied with nothing less than an Islamic state"; "If someone steals then they should lose a hand a foot"; "Adulterers should be stoned"; (only the women apparently); "Girls should not go to school."

They are stating their unequivocal aims. Clearly mass insanity is the name of the game and how do you fight that? The Taliban have used this time during the presence of western troops to re-arm and re-group and they are diving in with revived strength now that they have their opportunity.

To those who have lost loved ones in the army I would say: their involvement was not in vain as many Afghans (especially woman) have had cause to be grateful for the presence of the troops and the relative safety that it offered them. That it has come to an end (as was inevitable) does not mean that the benefits to the population during those years were not what worth fighting for.

And where do we go now? I simply do not know. We could not have stayed there forever. It does not seem that the legitimate government troops have the strength to deal with this on their own, in spite of the western efforts to train them.

We cannot turn the clock back now - the statement that the population does not espouse western values is out-dated. They have had TV and mobile phones and know about the western standards of democracy (however flawed) and it is likely that the mass of the population no longer support the traditional Afghan political systems. They have had a bit of a chance to see something else. But I am only surmising here - how can we know?

The role of religion in this mess makes me seethe. I steer clear of all religions as they are so open to corruption and riddled with control doctrines.

What bothers me is that once the lucky Afghans who manage to escape turn up at our borders as asylum seekers much of the sympathy being expressed for them will evaporate...

I wouldn't want one more British serviceman/woman to die in Afghanistan. And yet I feel desperately sorry for the ordinary people who just want to live in peace. They must be terrified now. I don't know what the answer is.

How often has the road to hell been paved with good intentions? I think our involvement in Afghanistan is yet another example of this. As for WMD's? who knows whether Saddam had them or not, as they were talked about, argued about, Dr Kelly's suicide (?!) and so on for months on end, giving Saddam , if they did exist, ample time to remove/ destroy them! Who will ever know the truth particularly after the Chilcott report? Totally agree with Luckygirl, tragically back to square one.

Thank you GrannyGravy for your answer. And I’m vey happy that your son returned from Afghanistan safely, because you must have been extremely concerned whilst he was there. I think it was the returning coffins from Iraq that turned the British people against Tony Blair’s wars, and I think I’m correct in saying that the coffins from Afghanistan came through a different airfield and were not allowed to be seen by the public. But we knew that our young men and women were being killed and maimed and we didn’t need a parade of coffins to know it.
What has been achieved in the long run? Nothing in my opinion. What was achieved in the short run? Women regained their freedom, children went to school, and those appalling executions in the football stadium were halted. For a while. The whole thing is unbearably sad.

RAF Lyneham Wootton Bassett maddyone.
The hearses drove through the little town and people lined the street for every one. Ordinary folk honouring the dead. Very touching.

maddyone morally how can the world turn its back on tens of thousands of women and young girls in Afghanistan.

Under Taliban rule the women will be forced to stay at home, the young girls will be denied an education and forced to marry Taliban soldiers and have babies whilst 12/13/14 yrs of age.

It doesn’t sit comfortably with me, but I know intervention is in all honesty futile.

tippytipsy

RAF Lyneham Wootton Bassett maddyone.
The hearses drove through the little town and people lined the street for every one. Ordinary folk honouring the dead. Very touching.

Hasn’t the town now received a Royal Warrant and is now called Royal Wootton Bassett?

Yes GG13 you are right. It is a little market town with a big heart.

Over 100 years ago my late father fought in the British Army in various hotspots, including Afghanistan.
Years later, when the Russians marched in my elderly father said they will never defeat them. He was proved correct as we know.
We should not be wasting money and resources on this sort of impossible situation.

The U.K. is sending military personnel out to Afghanistan to extradite any remaining U.K. Nationals.

Yes it is now Royal Wootton Bassett. It's only a few miles down the road from where we live and we remember the hearses very well, so no, we shouldn't go back there, but what we can do is anybody's guess, in reality probably nothing that hasn't already been tried and sadly failed.

One good question is "who funds the Taliban?" The opium trade is a huge funder, but money is sent through the Gulf States and our good friends the Saudis as well. It is better funded than the Afghan government,
I notice Tony Blair has moved on from Middle East Envoy. There must be more money elsewhere.

trisher

One good question is "who funds the Taliban?" The opium trade is a huge funder, but money is sent through the Gulf States and our good friends the Saudis as well. It is better funded than the Afghan government,
I notice Tony Blair has moved on from Middle East Envoy. There must be more money elsewhere.

Good point trisher unfortunately one that will probably not be known.

“GrannyGravy13

maddyone morally how can the world turn its back on tens of thousands of women and young girls in Afghanistan.
Under Taliban rule the women will be forced to stay at home, the young girls will be denied an education and forced to marry Taliban soldiers and have babies whilst 12/13/14 yrs of age.”

Well said GrannyGravy

The Taliban is funded by the worldwide opium trade which they largely control
The Taliban fund themselves largely through the opium trade, with Afghanistan supplying the vast majority of illicit heroin across the globe. Insurgents impose a tax at every stage of the drug production process, from poppy farmers to traders who transport the heroin to neighbouring countries.

The group also makes money through illegal mining and trading minerals.

This is according to a confidential report commissioned by Nato
inews.co.uk/news/world/taliban-who-afghanistan-control-islamist-militants-funds-explained-1143853

It is quite terrifying that this is happening and with such speed.
I wouldn't begin to know what could or should be done but we have spent many years after withdrawal of combat troops training the Afghan National Security Force only to see the country over-run again.
It is heartbreaking to see those terrified women and children.

May I just point out that it was not just the US and UK which sent troops into Afghanistan - it was NATO and there were many countries involved, in total there were troops from 36 member states which have gradually withdrawn.

NATO 6th July 2021:
NATO remains committed to the enduring partnership with Afghanistan. Following its two missions – the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) and the Resolute Support Mission (RSM) – NATO Allies and partners continue to stand with Afghanistan, its people and its institutions to promote security and uphold the hard-won gains of the last 20 years.

It all sounds quite hollow now.

I agree with everyone who has said how appalling the situation is and will be for the women and girls in particular, but let’s not forget that the inhumane punishments handed out by the Taliban affect men too. I feel desperately sorry for the people of Afghanistan, but I also feel that after twenty years, we cannot go on another twenty years. It is not up to Britain, or America, or the West in general to police the world, and I think we’ve given it our best shot. The original objective was to find, and probably kill, Bin Laden, which was finally achieved by the Americans a few years ago. No doubt someone will be along to tell me the exact number of years it was.
I’m so pleased that our brave service men and women are finally at home safely. They are indeed highly trained and professional, as has been pointed out, and the other forces who worked alongside them were also professional and highly trained, though undoubtedly at times, better equipped.
I saw an Afghan teacher on the news tonight. She taught girls and young women. My heart trembles when I think of that woman. She doesn’t know what to expect from the Taliban, but realistically she thinks she could be killed. There simply are no words.

We’ve been in there since 1991, and by Christmas, the place will be back to what it was in 1990.

The Russians, using heavy firepower, couldn’t defeat the Taliban previously, and the allies had no chance, in that landscape.

It’s been a total waste of money, time and British lives. My step grandson served out there, twice, and even he thought it was futile.

We need to accept, in the West, that we cannot change the structure of some countries, and we need to stop getting involved.

In every Middle Eastern country the allies have tried to “improve” its ended up making it worse for the civilians.

One of the consequences will be an increase in refugees fleeing the Taliban. Some will no doubt end up in small boats crossing the channel.

It's worth reading today's BBC article about the resurgence of the Taliban. It explains both the difficulties there have been in training national security forces in a country that is still basically tribal and that Pakistan is and has been a major player in supporting the Taliban and the demise of Afghanistan.
What's happening is both upsetting and alarming at a point where the world is unstable to say the least.

It is absolutely true that the West cannot police the world nor should it, it also cannot stay in Afghanistan or anywhere else indefinitely, this of course plays well for the Taliban who only have to watch and wait, time being on their side. Using this time profitability, with help from their point of view, from Iran? and? so when the time comes as inevitably it will, they can move forward with a vengeance. What a mess!

Here is Rory Stewart being interviewed this morning:

(sorry, it's a twitter link, but it's easy to see the clip)

twitter.com/KayBurley/status/1426091416564928518

What do we think of what he is saying?

I think Rory Stewart talks a lot of sense, there was nothing he said that I disagreed with.

We're sending soldiers back in, aren't we? To support the evacuation? Its like that image from Vietnam where everyone was fighting to get on the last helicopter.

Unfortunately you cannot rule out the influence of Islam and the desire to import sharia law here. I think it already operates but I haven't checked that in detail so please don't jump down my throat.

I used to live in a university city and a perfectly ordinary seeming woman opened a little corner shop. Like all the good liberal Westerners I was happy to support her. She was more than open about being a Muslim, fine with me until on various occasions I went in the shop to find her in mid conversation supporting the chopping off of thieves hands ('stops' em doing it again dunnit'), the veiling of girls, intense criticism of young girls going out to clubs and wearing revealing clothes, trashing unsupervised mixing of young men and women and supporting the execution of homosexuals. I stopped going to the shop and unfortunately I think she was expounding the views of many more cautious, silent Muslims. I am not being racist I'm telling you what I saw and heard, it's about returning to the 7th century and it's not confined to Afghanistan.