Afghanistan; did we waste our time, and even worse, our soldiers lives?

It was inevitable that the West would eventually have to withdraw from Afghanistan which of course the Taliban were well aware of and prepared to wait for. We have been there for two decades and it's difficult to understand why, during that time, Afghanistan seemed unable, with western help and money , to train and prepare its own armed forces to a high standard in preparation for the day when they would have to defend themselves. The Taliban, on the other hand, seem highly motivated, ruthless, merciless and frighteningly efficient. Whether we should have gone there in the first place is a moot point. When you look into the eyes of those terrified children fleeing this impending horror, I really don't know what we should or shouldn't have done. All anyone can say is that Afghanistan seems impossible to tame,whether its the British, the Russians the Americans, no one has ever managed to sustain a solid base. I wonder what China is making of it? another opportunity to gain a foothold at sometime in the future?

I’m not sure what ‘victory’ in Afghanistan would ever look like. What were the aims, beyond Bin Laden? Installing a democracy, I guess, but I don’t think that can be imposed if the population doesn’t agree to it.

If you look at the history of the country, situated as it is on the Silk Road, it’s been invaded and fought over for millennia. There are so many disparate groups, it’s hard to know what can bring them together.

As to whether we’ve wasted our time - how do you measure that? I really don’t know. I feel so sad for the Afghan women and children particularly because their future does not look bright.

Eldest child served in Afghanistan, just showed him this thread, I will not repeat his opinion…

He is proud to have served there, Dannantt definitely has an axe to grind, I will listen to his informed account both personal and that of the soldiers serving under him.

Our highly trained and professional military done the job they were trained for.

I hopefully think perhaps the west has learned its lesson about imposing western democracy on people, the majority of which don't know about, or wish to have democracy foisted on them. Why do we always think we are right on this? Our democracy has taken centuries to evolve as to how it is today, and yet we seemed to think that countries, totally unfamiliar with the concept would welcome our form of government with open arms and settle into it overnight. How naive was that?!! Lets hope we don't try that again.

I’ve deleted my comments on this thread three times now, the situation just reduces me to tears (I mean that literally).

My son-in-law was killed in action in Helmand Province in 2010 and I dread my 11 year old grandson asking questions about the current situation. I just don’t know how it is possible to explain, in any sensible way, what his daddy died for.

Oh grannyactivist I am so sorry to hear that. Your poor little grandson.
Those who have lost do not need to put it into words. You have my greatest sympathy.

On the News the other night, the mother of one young soldier killed 10 years ago, I think, said she felt all the deaths had been for nothing. What was it all for, she said?

My heart went out to her, if things had improved, it might have seemed worth it, but back to square one.

My concept is that much of the services time in A was helping to train the military. Cannot understand why this 'training' had gone downhill so rapidly.

Me too grannyactavist. You do have my deepest sympathy. It's very difficult to explain to a child the reason for their fathers death. My mother had that unenviable task when I was about 7. I guess I was considered old enough to understand. I can remember very well that difficult conversation. I am so very sorry for you and your family.

I thought that Britain initially went into A to assist them repel a Russian invasion and the SAS actually trained the troops who eventually became the Taliban - they had another name at the time. Bin Laden was trained by British troops.
It is difficult to know what could have been done and been more successful - most countries intervene for their own ends rather than completely altruistic reasons. We watched the news and the sad people who are running away hoping to find a safe place - now it seems Kabul is their last hope. It is heartbreaking when you think about the likely outcomes of the future of these poor people. The girls and young women are particularly vulnerable to the Taliban troops.
Huge swathes of the world are in dire straits without the effects that global warming etc is likely to cause.

Welshwife

I thought that Britain initially went into A to assist them repel a Russian invasion and the SAS actually trained the troops who eventually became the Taliban - they had another name at the time. Bin Laden was trained by British troops.
It is difficult to know what could have been done and been more successful - most countries intervene for their own ends rather than completely altruistic reasons. We watched the news and the sad people who are running away hoping to find a safe place - now it seems Kabul is their last hope. It is heartbreaking when you think about the likely outcomes of the future of these poor people. The girls and young women are particularly vulnerable to the Taliban troops.
Huge swathes of the world are in dire straits without the effects that global warming etc is likely to cause.

The Russians trained the Taliban.

It's the latest illustration of people not learning from history, Russia leaving Afghanistan should have been a warning not to plunge into a notorious warzone, just as Hitler should have learned from Napoleon's disastrous advance on Moscow.

Afghanistan is also one of the biggest if not the biggest producer of Opium Poppies. Eliminating the production and supply was one of the USA’s plans

How many armies have gone up against the Afghans? No one has ever won

The Russians invaded Afghanistan in 1978 - they started off supporting theAfghan govt - the Mujahidin were the resistance which wanted them out and they are the ones Britain supported and the SAS trained. Bin Laden was with them - they later became the Taliban.

Yes we wasted our time, but we had to do it. We had to make an effort. We had to try.

I think Mr Biden was right in what he says. A lot of money and men, training and lives have gone into helping the people of Afghanistan and now its up to them. But I fear that unless the war lords with their tribes come together to fight the Taliban all is lost. But I don't know who's going to pay to arm them if they do unite.

The poor women

Whitewavemark2

The poor women

Unfortunately all women under extreme regimes suffer, I personally cannot see any improvement soon.

Look at Iran, 40/50 years ago women had far more freedom than they do today.

I’m so very sorry for your loss grannyactivist. What a very difficult time for you and your family.

Whitewavemark2

The poor women

This sums up my feelings exactly, and I would add the poor children too.

Tony Blair and George Bush signed their respective countries into wars which have solved nothing. The Taliban have never gone away. They have bided their time until foreign troops left and they could crawl out from under their stones. It won't take much longer for Afghanistan to be right back to square one. I have no idea what will improve the situation for those living there, particularly women. Perhaps Mr. Blair, former Middle Eastern Peace Envoy ( which comedian thought Blair was an appropriate person?) may know.

GrannyGravy
It is a shame that you will not tell us your son’s opinion, because I and others would very much like to know what he thinks the British have achieved in Afghanistan. I am not doubting that our armed forces are both highly trained and professional and neither is anyone else on here. There was no need to shout, because our armed forces have always been fully supported by the British population, but I didn’t ask if the armed forces are highly trained and professional, rather I asked if we wasted our time (and money) because in my opinion absolutely nothing has been achieved, except 400 plus deaths (not to mention more than 2000 American deaths) and a huge amount of money. And today we are told on the news that the Taliban will be back in Kabul in three months or less. So GrannGravy please tell us what you think has been achieved by Tony Blair’s vanity project as I felt you feel quite offended by my question.

Yes we wasted our time occupying Afghanistan, Iraq and all the rest, all we achieved is to replace one despotic regime with an even worse one.
Leave the Arabs and Islamic world alone let the run their own countries.

Well it took nearly 2 whole pages but here we are.

maddyone I despise Tony Blair for sending our forces into an illegal war, there were no WMD in Iraq.

I have conflicting views on Afghanistan, the concept had good intentions , freedom to the people (especially women), education for children, a legitimate government along with the destruction of opium poppy fields which fund the Taliban. Removing Bin Laden has probably seeded multiple terrorists and will have the West on High Alert for the foreseeable future.