Afghanistan; did we waste our time, and even worse, our soldiers lives?

I expect the leader to accept culpability and the responsibility.

I feel, and always felt, that way throughout. That is what a leader takes on with the job.

Wonderful interview with Colonial Bob Stewart on GB News.
He’s spitting nails with how this has been rolled out.
He pulled no punches on calling out the corrupt Afghanistan government.

Blaming someone and accepting responsibility are not the same thing.

I expect the leader to accept culpability and the responsibility.

Biden’s speech was directed towards his citizens.

We have yet to hear from our leader

Werent you listening, the buck stops here. Sometimes good people do a bad thing. Or sometimes those we thought were good arent. Its oftencomplex but saying there is no culpability on Biden just isnt true.

Pointless trying to place the blame on one person. The west is culpable in Iraq, Syria, Libya and Afghanistan.

Your energy would be better used to ensure it never happens again.

Starmer urges Labour to embrace Blair’s legacy

Tony Blair's bloody legacy – 241,000 deaths in the Afghanistan and Pakistan war zone since 2001

I heard that Britain couldn't get as many out as it wanted before the Afghan president surrendered as while he was in government it was necessary to have the relevant documents which weren't being issued fast enough. Now that's been waived and they can get more out - if the planes can get in and out.

I’ve read that he was advised against it by his military top brass of consequence of a sudden withdrawal, but he went ahead with it anyway. He was vehemently against keeping troops in Afghanistan even before he became president. It is said that US intelligence agencies are”shocked” at the speed at which the country has fallen to the Taliban. If that’s the case it speaks volumes about the quality of their intelligence.

Surely Biden didn’t act alone, though? Would he not have been advised by specialists in the various areas on what was likely to happen? Or did he go off piste and decide it would all be fine despite what he’s been told? It would be educational to know the answers to this.

Shandy57

I've just been having a good cry at the scenes of the terrified people running. I am so sorry there is nothing I can do to help any of them.

I'm not surprised you cried, I felt the same watching it too

I've just been having a good cry at the scenes of the terrified people running. I am so sorry there is nothing I can do to help any of them.

maddyone

I agree with GrannyGravy in that the scenes at the airport are heartbreaking. This morning there was a veteran from Afghanistan on SkyNews. He lost both hid legs there, and witnessed colleagues killed. He was very saddened by the events now overtaking Afghanistan and feels total disillusion and that we wasted our times and efforts if this is the outcome. This is where my original post came from in my thinking and I feel unbelievably sad about the loss of life and limb and I feel fear as more massive terrorist events are being foreseen already.
Trump started this withdrawal but we cannot whitewash Biden’s part in this either. I believe he quickened up the withdrawal. Biden’s role is being discussed now on Jeremy Vine’s programme.

This echoes my original posts of last Wednesday. Bring back my son's school friend, 21 at the time, and he would be VERY disillusioned. He started to feel that way at the time, but was there to do his duty.
Sorry, it cuts deep.

I believe he (Biden) quickened up the withdrawal.

Yes he certainly did. I posted this on another thread a few days ago: And he's gone so far as stating that "he has no regrets" in withdrawing troops support from Afghanistan. Whilst I would agree 100% that Trump was a stupied and dangerous pillock, Biden had the opportunity to rectify this particular Trmpism but didn't. Such was his belief that Afghanistan was able to maintain peace without US forces prescence, he even denied that there was any risk or likelihood that the Taliban would overrun the country. He was wrong there, wasn't he?

I agree with GrannyGravy in that the scenes at the airport are heartbreaking. This morning there was a veteran from Afghanistan on SkyNews. He lost both hid legs there, and witnessed colleagues killed. He was very saddened by the events now overtaking Afghanistan and feels total disillusion and that we wasted our times and efforts if this is the outcome. This is where my original post came from in my thinking and I feel unbelievably sad about the loss of life and limb and I feel fear as more massive terrorist events are being foreseen already.
Trump started this withdrawal but we cannot whitewash Biden’s part in this either. I believe he quickened up the withdrawal. Biden’s role is being discussed now on Jeremy Vine’s programme.

Other countries will crawl out of the woodwork to support the Taliban with their own agendas. They will supply arms and goods to them and there is nothing we can do. They will be accepted gladly by these thugs who will maintain their positions in exchange for influence and political bases. No names,no pack drill but it is pretty obvious.

Will the Taliban be content once they have Afghanistan under their control or is this just the beginning of them spreading their brutal regime ever wider? That's my concern.

The scenes from Kabul airport are heartbreaking, five dead trying to get on an overcrowded plane just reported.

U.K. troops are at Kabul airport along with US and Allied Forces keeping the Military runway and part free of the Taliban and working to evacuate people.

The US and Allied Troops were in Afghanistan with the approval of the Afghani legitimate Government.

Whilst there the females and children were able to live a life of relative safety, the children particularly girls had an education the women were allowed to mix socially.

The Taliban are an extremely well organised group of bullies in the name of Allah they have got to this position by fear, killing all who oppose their ideology, unspeakable acts of barbaric violence and the raping of young girls in front of their families.

How can anyone stand by and do nothing?
Is it morally our duty as human beings to help others who are suffering?

Galaxy

You also need to ask do we have the moral right not to change it.

Yes of course, but I would suggest that the way to do so is through aid and subsequent trade not with the way we have done so in places like Afghanistan.

What we must ask ourselves is that however abhorrent we may find a particular culture do we have the moral right to try to change it?

We don't want to just change it, we want to make it a copy of ourselves and that isn't how things work.

Absolutely, Galaxy. Whitewavemark2 asks: "What we must ask ourselves is that however abhorrent we may find a particular culture do we have the moral right to try to change it?"
You would have to pose the question - where would we be now if we had taken that attitude in 1939.
My son served tours in both Afghanistan and Iraq, helping to train the local army, and said they knew this would be exactly what would happen when they left.

You also need to ask do we have the moral right not to change it.

The most dangerous fallout from the breathtaking success of the Taliban is the boost in moral and intention of every terrorist in the world both abroad and those sitting in their houses in the U.K.

The lesson that must finally be learned is that to try to impose a different way of life on a culture, will never ever work unless you are prepared to stay for generations and invest untold vast quantities of money and perhaps lives in doing so.

What we must ask ourselves is that however abhorrent we may find a particular culture do we have the moral right to try to change it?

The U.K. is as guilty as anyone and the misery and damage done by us in our mission to bring light to dark continents does not bear investigation.

This is repeating itself now in Afghanistan.

As the airport in Kabul is under fire

I read that warning shots were fired by the US to prevent people running onto the tarmac to reach the planes, rather than the airport being under fire.