Dominic Raab

If you believe something strongly you should be prepared to stand up and be counted.

You couldn't make it up

metro.co.uk/2021/08/26/afghanistan-helpline-redirected-callers-to-washing-machine-company-15156117/

He's still making up stories about his whereabouts whilst on holiday. Apparently he had an extra in his suite so that he work and take Zoom conferences!!! Oh yes, also there was a red ball out in the sea which meant he couldn't have been seen in the water (or perhaps it was a red flag) The story changes all the time.

He has managed to prove his own belief!

Whitewavemark2

What a charming man

Indeed - here's the full quote (and Patel and Truss are involved too)

Biden made the decision he did, and he will answer to the American's for it. As I said above, the whole point of our Offices of State is to know and understand what is happening that will affect us. Out government was well behind the curve on this. America has wanted out for years; Trump entered the US into an agreement to come out; Biden said he would go ahead with it.

We just let it all hang until it was too late.

Biden's decision has got nothing to do with his age. He has been consistently against US involvement in Afghanistan for a very long time. His decision was formed by his son, Beau's experiences serving there. Beau died some year's later from cancer.

Given that Biden had previously had to cope with the death of his first wife and a daughter in a car accident, I think the death of Beau and the fact that he also risked his life in Afghanistan, has made Biden hyper sensitive to the loss of Americans in foreign wars.

I do not defend Biden, but his decision needs to be seen in the context of his whole political career and family tragedies, rather than facile judgements about his current mental acuity.

Cross post! Thanks Lucca

I’ve got yesterday’s Sunday Times, but haven’t got around to reading it. I shall have a look

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202108/medium-9073-ba0b91dd-d907-4301-9c59-b60c8db9deae.png https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202108/medium-396327-3340fe66-e4b7-4388-bcf2-ce81c22e2484.png

From the Sunday times

I've tried searching on 'Laurie Bristow' on twitter. Apart from the Mail story, I found this. The posted extract supposedly from the Sunday Times tells a slightly different story about who 'ordered' him to stay from the Mail's...

Andrew Levi
@AndrewPRLevi
·
Aug 21
This, from @thesundaytimes directly contradicts @laurie_bristow’s statement, on the record, about choosing to stay in Kabul.

twitter.com/AndrewPRLevi/status/1429165341893185538

Thanks Maizie

I haven’t seen it at all.

Fake news I suspect.

FannyCornforth

Daisymae

According to press reports Laurie Bristow, the ambassador, was ordered to stay and help with the evacuation.

I was under the impression that it was Bristow’s choice.
Most of the other ambassadors left.

I can only find this story in the Daily Mail (and some other obscure sites that have repeated it word for word). It was apparently in the Sunday Times, but I'm surprised that I hadn't seen anything about it yesterday because something like that would be all over twitter. Did anyone else see it?

It seems a bit suspicious that this 'story' is emerging after a week of Raab being lambasted in all directions for failing to come back to the UK while Bristow is being lauded as a hero.

Source is, apparently, the Foreign Office..

If he was 'ordered' to stay then he seems to be making the best of a bad job. The videos he's posted on twitter show someone quite at ease.

I'm still amazed they close parliament during pandemics tbh

What worries me is that those desperate to support this Government are willing to believe that the fault lies in America. That Mr Raab may not have been at his best but, they say, our Government did nothing wrong. They are going along with the unsubstantiated "fact" that Biden is mentally ill. These briefings to the media are, of course, coming from the Conservative party and from Tony Blair.

Does this help the people in Afghanistan? Or is it just covering up some of our politicians' inability to do the job. There has been deterioration in British-American relations because of this briefing by the UK against America. Who is that helping? Those trying to get out of Afghanistan? I don't think so. Our current politicians and a maverick? It certainly suits their purpose.

We were indeed surprised by how the Americans are pulling out. Our Government did not see the dissatisfaction the American people had in remaining in Afghanistan. Nor did they foresee the collapse of the Afghan army. That was a failure on the part of our Offices of State. The Foreign Office is supposed to understand the culture of other countries. They should not have put us in a position where the actions of another country cause us to fail. It is difficult to tell if the Defence Department had warned and was ignored by the PM, or if there was not sufficient knowledge about the Afghan army. Either way, the Government has again let down our troops and the country.

All the briefings against Biden and the call for the US to extend the deadline are not going to help Afghanistan one iota. They are just an attempt to absolve our Government. A Government which, yet again, is in dereliction of duty to this country. A Government yet again, being incompetent and unprofessional.

Daisymae

According to press reports Laurie Bristow, the ambassador, was ordered to stay and help with the evacuation.

I was under the impression that it was Bristow’s choice.
Most of the other ambassadors left.

FannyCornforth

There hasn’t been any unpleasantness on this thread, has there ?
(Aside from that directed at the government)

I don't know how it works here, but there seems to be some needling and itching for a bit of disagreement.
If everyone is in unison on this matter why upset an apple cart?

Why would anyone bother
Does Raab need defending I don’t think so
I cannot comment because I wasn’t there I do not know the full facts and I am not privy to government information or private phone calls
To some it wouldn’t matter what the government did it would be wrong

According to press reports Laurie Bristow, the ambassador, was ordered to stay and help with the evacuation.

What a charming man

MawBe

Lucca

Jabberwok

Knowing the unpleasantness it would cause by certain people, I guess others simply can't be bothered.

And I knew that would be the response. “Too cool for school”. “Better things to do”. “Unpleasantness from certain posters”.

Do you defend Raab’s actions ? In which case please have the courage of your convictions.

Does anybody in fact seek to defend Raab’s actions (or lack thereof?)
It sounds as if some people might like a bunfight, but in this case, it’s an empty room.

Why would anyone bother? The political threads will become echo chambers if anyone with a different point of view is called a silly woman, a coward etc etc and sniggered at.

Just asking, not fighting, nor defending Raab or the rest of this government in any way whatsoever.

Some did speak up for him on another thread. Perhaps they have changed their minds but are too much of a coward to say so?

Lucca

Jabberwok

Knowing the unpleasantness it would cause by certain people, I guess others simply can't be bothered.

And I knew that would be the response. “Too cool for school”. “Better things to do”. “Unpleasantness from certain posters”.

Do you defend Raab’s actions ? In which case please have the courage of your convictions.

Does anybody in fact seek to defend Raab’s actions (or lack thereof?)
It sounds as if some people might like a bunfight, but in this case, it’s an empty room.

They won't be called Statesmen or Stateswomen now or in the future that is for sure.