2 Suicide bomb attacks at Kabul Airport

Same here Blossoming I shudder to think what life will be like for the decent people left there.

The news from Afghanistan this morning is heartbreaking and frightening. I feel so sorry and anxious for all those left behind.

bodach yes numerical literal made there meant 16,000 not 160,000 apologise but as Dalrymple says in his masterly book on the Afghan War 1839-62 :'The parallels between the two invasions were not just anecdotal, they were substantive. The same group rivalries and the same battles were fought out in the same places 170 years later under the guise of new banners, new beliefs and new political orchestrators. The same cities were occupied by troops speaking the same languages, and they were attacked again from the same high passes. In both cases, the invaders thought they could walk in, perform regime change, and be out in a couple of years.'
Till the time of Tony Blair invading Afghanistan was infamous for its folly and what is more an indelible mark had been made there convinced that the US were trying to do what the British had done. Hillary Clinton was aware of this not sure the others were.

???

tickingbird

PippaZ I can’t engage further with you as you refuse to deal with facts. Biden was on tv lying - several times in one press conference last week.

I don’t expect anything I say to make an impression on you; I’ve already formed my opinion of you and know the type of person you are.

Not sure why you saw the need to write this as I had already said there is no point in replying to unsubstantiated opinion.

I have a strong feeling that you do not even know what "facts" are as you have offered yet another uncorroborated opinion which you seem to believe is a fact.

Have a nice day.

The evacuation was mishandled and there are many questions to be answered. For instance, why was the secure Bagram airbase closed and the evacuation carried out from a civilian airfield?

Why wasn't the "deadline" extended when it became clear not all those in need of evacuation would be got out?

Why were they not evacuated before the withdrawal of troops?

Why was it necessary for British SAS to have to escort American civilians to the airfield?

I make no assumptions about Biden's mental health but I do think he was promoted beyond his abilities - he is out of his depth.

But Biden is the president, not Trump. Biden is 100% responsible. In fact I think Trump would have done a better job in this particular matter.

PippaZ I can’t engage further with you as you refuse to deal with facts. Biden was on tv lying - several times in one press conference last week.

I don’t expect anything I say to make an impression on you; I’ve already formed my opinion of you and know the type of person you are.

Why should I believe that Biden has "lied and lied" ticklingbird. You are still not giving facts - you show no proof whatsoever of him lying. You expect me to accept that you are right simply because you chose to believe it. That makes this just a rant. Why should someone ranting influence my thinking?

...this thread isn’t about Trump. It’s about Afghanistan and President Biden’s disastrous withdrawal strategy.

Again your words are not facts; they are simply not true. Of course, the withdrawal from Afghanistan, which was done because of a treaty made by Trump, will include discussions about Trump. The above quote is just inaccurate. The OP doesn't mention any names so why twist the truth and say it is about Biden?

I talk to my family in America and they would not see the picture you are painting. They give me background and facts. Why do you think unsubstantiated views would make any difference? I don't accept what we might loosely see as your "arguments" and don't see any point in trying to discuss in a reasoned way with you - but rant on by all means.

PippaZ

Biden has had the sense to go ahead with this at the very beginning of his presidency, so the worst of the fallout, which I have no doubt he expected, might affect the mid-terms but should have blown itself out by the time of the next election. He is more of a politician than the thug that is Trump

Just read your words and reflect on what you’re saying here.

Yes Biden is a politician - typically so. He’s lied and lied. He’s only concerned with staying in power and presents the ‘correct’ front and people like yourself fall for it.

You think it’s acceptable that the ‘fall out’ as you put it will have blown itself out in time for his re election? The fall out being the slaughter of innocent people due to his incompetence and the deaths of 13 US servicemen. That’s ok is it because he’s behaving like a true politician and covering his arse? I doubt very much he’ll be around to be re elected and in present form, if he is, there’s very little chance he’ll be re elected. This won’t blow over and nor should it.

As for your insistence on repeatedly calling Trump a thug - he may be many things but thug isn’t one of them.

As for answering absent’s post? Why should I? It wasn’t aimed at me and in spite of your efforts, this thread isn’t about Trump. It’s about Afghanistan and President Biden’s disastrous withdrawal strategy.

MayBee70

Can someone explain to me how American intelligence knew that a terrorist attack on the airport was imminent but that same intelligence didn’t realise that the Taliban were going to take over the country in a matter of days?

In Frederick Forsythes book The Afghan he goes into great detail about the listening devises trained on the Taliban and it only needs one person to say the wrong thing.
As Frederick Forsythe is a retired Mi6 agent I’m sure he still has a lot of contacts when he wrote the book.

You don’t know anymore than anyone else so please stop posting as if you’re an authority on the matter and nobody else knows what they’re talking about.

I think it's the case, tickingbird, that I don't talk about what I don't know. I make every effort to simply present facts. Facts do have more authority than biased guesswork; you should try it. This conversation deserves to be factual.

I don't "hate" Trump so please stop putting words in my mouth. I do think he was unfit to be President. He is an anti-democratic liar and a thug. I know that because of what is known about what he did.

Have you read Absent's post by the way? Are you going to challenge the facts she presents or just ignore them?

And let's not forget that Barack Obama misled the country about ending the war in Afghanistan in 2014

Nobody is unblemished. The whole thing is an appalling humanitarian catastrophe.

Biden has had the sense to go ahead with this at the very beginning of his presidency, so the worst of the fallout, which I have no doubt he expected ...

You had no doubt he expected, PippaZ? I don't think he expected any such thing. He made enough comments about it being a calm withdrawal. Which it wasn't.

U.S Marine Lt. Col. Stuart Scheller isn't impressed with Biden. He has released some scathing comments about how all this has been handled. By Biden. Scheller's now been released from duties. For telling the truth

I'm thinking Scheller knows a lot more than Biden about what's happening on the ground

grannygranby: "Most afghanis live in the mountains in tribes hundreds of miles away from cities. Tribes that defeated the British in the 19th century trapping them in the passes and slaughtering 165,000. We thought we could just go in and take over then at the height of our empire". I presume you are referring to the disastrous retreat from Kabul in 1842, during what is known as the first Anglo-Afghan War - in which case your casualty figures are out by a factor of 10. Some 16,500 died, of whom 4,500 were soldiers - mostly Indian sepoys, apart from a single British Regiment (the 44th Foot). The remainder were camp followers: servants, women and children, the vast majority of them Indian and Afghan. And there was a bit more to it than simply "thinking we could just go in and take over at the height of our empire"

Many probably didn't bother to reflect on it in the first place and they certainly don't want you to remind them absent but I will thank you for a rational post.

Has everyone forgotten how Donald Trump abandoned the Kurds willy nilly, leaving them to be slaughtered by Turkey? Has everyone forgotten how Donald Trump boasted that he had destroyed Isis? Has everyone forgotten how Donald Trump talked about Iraq: "Get the oil, get the oil, then leave". If not how can you possibly suggest that he would have done a better job of evacuation in Afghanistan? Btw Joe Biden has responded to ISIS K.

Thanks Maybee. It will be good to hear Rory Stuart's measured tones.

I think, at this point, that language may be for domestic consumption. I don't think IsisK are ready to be friends whatever he says. Hopefully he listens to those advising him.

Bidens language towards the terrorists is very inflammatory. I’m very concerned about how he’s dealing with this. I think his personal involvement, because of his son, may be clouding his judgement. It’s very worrying.

PippaZ

HannahLoisLuke What channel was Rory Stewart on, please?

It’s BBCiplayer. It’s called Afghanistan, a personal view I think….

HannahLoisLuke What channel was Rory Stewart on, please?

tickingbird/Anniel all I have done is attribute what the UK government (I still believe NI is part of us) had done or not done to the UK, what Biden has done getting vast numbers out of Afghanistan and what Trump has done in the past, to the US. There will be enquiries.

That seems fair to me.

I haven't made anything up about a man who has to have a regular medical one of which has been made public and another is due to be released in a few months.

The Johnson government has opposed and delayed all enquiries called for so far.

Trump's record shows that he has attempted a coup and mishandled the covid crisis. As he left office the figures showed that a shameful 400,000 of the people in his care had died. He has just lost another attempt in the courts to twist the truth.

Those are the things I referred to and they are facts not egregious, biased gossip.

What is clear now is that thousands in fear of their lives will have been left behind. They are now expecting the worst, and their only option will be to try the perilous routes overland out of the country.

Just watched the Rory Stewart programme. Very illuminating and makes clear everything that we’re all struggling to understand. Although several years old he could be talking about the present.
If you’re at all interested in how we reached this point with Afghanistan then please watch it.

Well said tickingbird! A balanced voice of reason.

Well done Biden.

What could have been an orderly evacuation conducted from a secure military airfield has become a carnival of desperation, horror and death, all because a confused geriatric wanted to posture on the 9/11 anniversary as the president who ended the war.

PippaZ you manage to blame the British govt. but say nothing about the stupid decision by President Biden. In case you did not know it, we belong to NATO and so we loyally backed up the USA as did other EU partners. It is NOT the single blame of the British government although one could wonder at the combined intelligence of UK and USA for no real early warning that the Taliban would take over. The Afghani soldiers deserted because the corrupt Afghan govt stole all the money and did not pay the troops. One could fairly blame our government from not acting sooner to get our interpreters and their families out. Unfortunately, without the USA we do not have the military strength to take on the Taliban.