What does each political group want?

Congratulations Pippa It's going well.

? failed!

That was to lucca

Toryism organised spivery A new packet of paracetamol, woo a new hospital.

Labour For the many not the few grand aims Don't know what Labour stands for now though.

Liberals Do they know what they want, or do people. I don't know.

Greens Good ideals, a good starting point.

I am Labour to the left.

Grany. I don’t think that contributed usefully to this thread

I am trying to do a bit of a summary. Would you agree that:

Someone from the Conservative Party would say they believe in:
Free Markets

Or that someone from the Labour Party would say they believe in:
Ownership (of basic services) by the state

And would someone from the LibDem party say they believe in:
Social Capitalism

And would some from the Green Party
Eco-Capitalism

I have looked back at your posts. I have found that getting the same area for each party will take thought. Add those you have decided are appropriate for one party. Then try and add something covering the same area to each of the others. It isn't easy. It may be that one area in one party is as important to another area in a different party.

I thought I would try "minimal bureaucracy" in the Conservative list but other parties might think something else more important than that. No one would want "maximum bureaucracy" so I am trying to think what minimum bureaucracy stops the other parties from achieving. It's not easy!

Conservatism
Money makes money, survival of the fittest and the richest.

Liberals
Depends which way the wind is blowing or who is the leader's best mate

Labour
Who knows? Watch this space.

Greens
Recycle and reuse. Turn out the light. Stop flying.

Trisher this in not an attempt to put forward our personal views. This is not that thread.

So from your post we could take that the Conservatives believe in Personal Financial Responsibility.

I don't know if anyone can get anything else from it. Anyone?

That would make my summary:

*Conservative Party*:
Free Markets
Personal Financial Responsibility
Minimal bureaucracy

*Labour Party*:
Ownership (of basic services) by the state
State aid towards equality

LibDem party say they believe in:
Social Capitalism
Community Aid

Green Party
Eco-Capitalism

I am by not means sure about these - or the way I have described them.

not means no means

I don't see that old traditions of these parties are relevant any more.

Thatcherism changed traditional Conservatism.

I would put forward that traditional conservatism recently left the building with Ken Clarke.

I used to know what Labour traditionally stood for but now I don't.

Are we defining them traditionally - which in my opinion is not relevant in this country today or what they stand for right here right now. In which case I would put Labour as conservative with a small c - hopefully left of Ken Clarke but after the champagne socialism of new labour they would be to the right of Ken Clarke!

So many have added their own interpretations to the parties it is hard to see where they came from or where they are going.

Pippaz if you choose to ask for simple answers to a complex question you shouldn't be surprised if someone regards it as a bit of a joke. Sorry you can't see a funny side.

Do the Labour Party believe in ownership of basic services by the State? I don't know any more.

I think there are some principles that both the "extreme" and more "centrist" parts of the parties could say they stand for - they just mean it in a more extreme or centrist way.

I wasn't sure how to describe where the Labour Party stands in comparison to the Conservative belief in "free markets" so I just tried a description we could discuss. I wonder if anyone can come up with a short description? Would "mixed economy" be better?

Whatdayisit

Do the Labour Party believe in ownership of basic services by the State? I don't know any more.

They did in their last manifesto and I haven't seen or heard anything that tells me any different.

It would be good if some tory and Libdem voters would come and tell us what their party stands for.

@*Pippa*. I don't understand at all what 'social capitalism' could possibly be. I think they are either 'mixed economy' or a contradiction in terms.

I know. Where is Varian when you need her?

Please believe that I don't know, or think I know, what is right; I'm just trying to move the conversation forward. I believe the Nordic form of capitalism might be called Social Capitalism but I a really, really happy for someone to tell me what it should be for each party.

I was thinking of PFI contracts to build hospitals etc.

I would say mixed economy would be where the Labour Party before and after JC would stand.

I think we should have a distinction between what they tell the public they want and what they really are. I don't think any of them would come out well.

Politics is such a changing landscape these days.
It's a hard reality when you think Jeffrey Archer is talking sense. A villain of yesteryear saying what you want to hear The Labour leader say.

Free markets or laissez faire is in theory a system where private individuals can carry out profit driven transactions free from any state interference e.g. market regulation or state support say in the form of subsidies.

I think that there are very very few conservatives who believe in this form of free for all, devil take the hindmost type of capitalism.

However, there has been a consistent thread throughout the Conservative party existence that believes that the individual is the basis of the economy or society (Thatcher’s there is no such thing as society). The individual is seen as a rational human being, who will largely, by following the rule of god given natural law, make decisions, both economic and social that are best for that individual.

With regard to social capitalism or social democracy. This reflects what you find in most capitalist countries in the world.

The regulation of the market is considered a necessity as well as the support of fundamental human rights, such as health, education, right to housing, employment etc.

The point of issue between all western political parties is at what level, the state should intervene to ensure that these basic rights are upheld.

So, very roughly the Conservatives would tend to believe that the individual should be responsible for his economic and welfare health.

Those more to the left believe that big business is too powerful for the individual to defend his own interests and therefore, regulation etc overseen by the state is essential.

It’s all a bit simplistic I know but don’t want to bore the pants off people?

trisher

I think we should have a distinction between what they tell the public they want and what they really are. I don't think any of them would come out well.

That's not really what I was asking. I am keen to know what they say their principles are. We should be shocked that this seems such a difficult ask but I think if we take expand the question we will not be able to answer the original question.

Whitewavemark2

It’s all a bit simplistic I know but don’t want to bore the pants off people?

Not at all, it's much more interesting than hurling insults

Thatcherism changed traditional Conservatism.

Since we don't seem to be being joined by rightward leaning posters, can I deflect by posting a link to a Richard Murphy blog about Adam Smith? Adam Smith was a Thatcher influence but I don't think she'd actually read his work...

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2021/08/29/four-questions-to-ask-of-any-economic-policy/

That is a good article MaizieD. I think politicians throughout the centuries all took a bit of Adam Smith and used him to form their own policies.
The Tories have used The Adam Smith Institute to advise their policies but what part of their policies are relevant to Adam Smith's own original beliefs.